M4, M4A1, M16A2, A3 and A4 Safety Issue

#61
The other piece of gen missing from the article was how many NDs occurred.
After the first incident was the wpn tested empty on range, with or without an armr, and then all similar types placed on hold pending examination, or were there a number of incidents before action took place ?

It should all come out in the wash and the report will make interesting reading, both for what it contains and what is omitted.

It still seems more prone to happen with just deliberate GI fuckery. The sequence of events is pretty specific. But we will find out in the end, I know the Army is having teething issues with the new M17. One would think that small arms would not be the bane of the US Army....
 
#62
You mean if someone continually fails to carry out any of his NSPs & IA drills ?
That's either a failure of all the training and assessment teams the individual has been in contact with or an application for a commission.
Given the revised IA drill, the original IA drill does not involve checking the selector.
In the scenario where the selector has been moved to and left in an intermediate position, pulling the trigger will result in a failure to fire. The original IA drill, carried out correctly, would reset the rifle mechanism but wouldn’t fix the problem. Any number of correctly carried out original IA drills would fail to fix the problem. At some point the user would start looking for a different solution, taking him out of the fight for a longer period. On top of that, adjusting the selector post trigger pull will result in a shot being discharged, which is undesirable.

So the new IA drill includes a selector check.
 
#63
If the weapon functions correctly, it will fire if you squeeze the trigger while the selector is between Semi and Auto. The problem ones, when you squeeze the trigger in that position you feel in binding a bit, but nothing falls, releasing the trigger , then completing the moving of the selector switch to Auto, the hammer falls. Setting up the ND takes thought, it's hard to see how some one can do it by accident but apparently it has and more than once.
 
#64
To hopefully clarify a few things, moving from Safe to Semi, you push down on the selector switch and this is an easy move as the thumb rests on the selector. To go from Semi to Auto, you push the selector forward but since it is a full 90 degree move it's almost a forward and up movement, at least that's how it's always felt to me. Maybe I just have short thumbs but it's still not a real natural movement.
 
#65
I bet now we will see a lot of cases of Pte Numb nuts trying to make it have because they saw it on line, only to be followed by the standard plethora of youtube pages putting out their own videos and opinions on it.
I wonder if guys who have been charged in the past for ND/UD's will try to blame this and have their charges re heard or dropped. Being the US and the home of litigation, its probably only a matter of time.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#66
You mean if someone continually fails to carry out any of his NSPs & IA drills ?
That's either a failure of all the training and assessment teams the individual has been in contact with or an application for a commission.
Given the revised IA drill, the original IA drill does not involve checking the selector.
A correct NSP would have fixed it.
But regarding their IA true enough, and the CSPORTS drill should solve this contrived problem until the Armrs have finished.

In the scenario where the selector has been moved to and left in an intermediate position, pulling the trigger will result in a failure to fire. The original IA drill, carried out correctly, would reset the rifle mechanism but wouldn’t fix the problem. Any number of correctly carried out original IA drills would fail to fix the problem.
Also true, but the effort to get to this condition would also have been considerable.

At some point the user would start looking for a different solution, taking him out of the fight for a longer period.
While it's not covered in their IA*, (and if this stoppage occurred accidentally,) one would imagine that the sldr would check his safety had the wpn not fired.
Had it discharged on the safety/selector being moved to one of the fire psns then he wasn't out of the contact much.

* Nor it (was) it in our IA for the 119, but it is in truth a different weapon. That said, as previously mentioned a correctly carried out NSP would have obviated the "problem."

On top of that, adjusting the selector post trigger pull will result in a shot being discharged, which is undesirable.
During selector adjustment under contact yes, but I've yet to be convinced of this as a real problem.**

So the new IA drill includes a selector check.
As do the Brit & SA NSPsWhile it used to be on the books for load and obviously make safe, I've watched it taught as IA in recent years with the L85.

** As far as I've heard those rifles where this 'problem' can be created are intended to get a FOGB detent to prevent Pte Braindonor from doing this again.
His next trick, (which is hardly original,) will be to prove he can fire a rd and catch the projectile within the flash hider using only his thumb.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#67
To hopefully clarify a few things, moving from Safe to Semi, you push down on the selector switch and this is an easy move as the thumb rests on the selector. To go from Semi to Auto, you push the selector forward but since it is a full 90 degree move it's almost a forward and up movement, at least that's how it's always felt to me. Maybe I just have short thumbs but it's still not a real natural movement.
Then you want to try the thumb safety/selector on the R4.
 

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