lugovoy wanted for litvinenko poisoning

#1
Is this another increment in the resurgence of the Soviet, oops sorry Russian Federation, if so will I need to go find that very nice trench I dug on the tunnel exit in the Teuterberger Wald twenty some years ago? or maybe I should re-dig the one on the Weser Bridge near Schloss Marienberg or.....
need I go on things look to be gettin chilly out East again.
Keep them Challengers warm boys!
 
#2
Unfortunately Russian law prevents extradition of her citizens. That said, they want Boris Berezovski back so maybe we could do a trade.

"Prosecutor General Yuri Chaika said that under Russian law, a Russian citizen who is accused of committing a crime abroad must face trial at home. "If they want to arrest citizens of the Russian Federation, it would be impossible because of the Russian Constitution,'' he told reporters."
 
#3
Lucky that eh.
 
#4
Odds are Mr Lugovoy will assume room temperature sometime in the near future. A nice way to cover tracks.
 
#5
devexwarrior said:
Unfortunately Russian law prevents extradition of her citizens. That said, they want Boris Berezovski back so maybe we could do a trade.

"Prosecutor General Yuri Chaika said that under Russian law, a Russian citizen who is accused of committing a crime abroad must face trial at home. "If they want to arrest citizens of the Russian Federation, it would be impossible because of the Russian Constitution,'' he told reporters."
However, in 2001 Russia signed the 1957 EU convention on extradition.
 
#6
As I understand there is no any real evidences. Only suppositions, theories, ideas. If guilt of mr.Lugovoy is well founded then what is the proof? No doubt that skilled lawyer would win the case in possible trial.

As for British detectives then their demand for extradiction is rather an attmpt to cover up their inability to investigate the crime or maybe Scotland Yard is well aware about real killers. What if the poisoning was ordered by mr.Berezovsky (bwt traces of Polonium were found in his house)?
 
#7
PsyWar.Org said:
However, in 2001 Russia signed the 1957 EU convention on extradition.
But did anyone tell the Russians that they'd signed :D
 
#8
Virgil said:
Odds are Mr Lugovoy will assume room temperature sometime in the near future. A nice way to cover tracks.
Be a bit colder than that where he get put :twisted:

Sergey on a more serious note, it may well be that "criminals" attempted to solve the Berezovsky problem in the same way as the Litvinenko one. It is hghly doubtful if Scotland Yard would try and be silly simply because official circles leak like old tin buckets and they would be found out.
 
#9
devexwarrior said:
Unfortunately Russian law prevents extradition of her citizens. That said, they want Boris Berezovski back so maybe we could do a trade.
It does seem fair to me but then, i do not beleive that some of the plays made by the russian community living here now, are in the best interests of either there own country or there adopted? One.

Still i suppose it wont hurt too dig out my 'rough guide too NATO's shellscrapes and firetrenchs'
 
#10
KGB_resident said:
As I understand there is no any real evidences. Only suppositions, theories, ideas. If guilt of mr.Lugovoy is well founded then what is the proof? No doubt that skilled lawyer would win the case in possible trial.

As for British detectives then their demand for extradiction is rather an attmpt to cover up their inability to investigate the crime or maybe Scotland Yard is well aware about real killers. What if the poisoning was ordered by mr.Berezovsky (bwt traces of Polonium were found in his house)?
Yes mate, when just about anyone criticises Putin and his government of ex-KGB/FSB buddies, they're harrassed, inimdated and murdered (13 journos have died in accidents/suicides/murders since 2000, Anna Politkovskaya most notably).
Russian police and prosecutors being poster boys for integrity, honesty and efficiency, (especially after such fiascos as the three whale scandal) suddenly began wrapping up investigations in record times...a lot of previously balanced, motivated journos (with no previous history of mental illness), suddenly became prone to suicidal fits of depression and bad luck.

But hey, he's a strong man for a strong Russia, so what do a few liberals more or less matter?

And if nothing else suffices, a complete denial and stout refusal to acknowledge the truth that something is wrong in Russia-will always see you through.
 
#11
inbredyokel666 said:
KGB_resident said:
As I understand there is no any real evidences. Only suppositions, theories, ideas. If guilt of mr.Lugovoy is well founded then what is the proof? No doubt that skilled lawyer would win the case in possible trial.

As for British detectives then their demand for extradiction is rather an attmpt to cover up their inability to investigate the crime or maybe Scotland Yard is well aware about real killers. What if the poisoning was ordered by mr.Berezovsky (bwt traces of Polonium were found in his house)?
Yes mate, when just about anyone criticises Putin and his government of ex-KGB/FSB buddies, they're harrassed, inimdated and murdered (13 journos have died in accidents/suicides/murders since 2000, Anna Politkovskaya most notably).
Russian police and prosecutors being poster boys for integrity, honesty and efficiency, (especially after such fiascos as the three whale scandal) suddenly began wrapping up investigations in record times...a lot of previously balanced, motivated journos (with no previous history of mental illness), suddenly became prone to suicidal fits of depression and bad luck.

But hey, he's a strong man for a strong Russia, so what do a few liberals more or less matter?

And if nothing else suffices, a complete denial and stout refusal to acknowledge the truth that something is wrong in Russia-will always see you through.
Also there are many theories why dr. David Kelly was ki ... committed suicide.

Let's look at the affair from another angle. Was it (the deth of mr.Litvinenko) profitable for Russian authorities. All that he knew he told to British secret services. After it he hadn't access to any sources of information. Poor, jobless man who converted to Islam. Hardly anybody knew his name before the poisoning.

http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?q=Litvinenko&tab=ns&start=13&scope=all

BBC mentioned Litvinenko 2 times in 2002, 2 times in 2003 and never before the poisoning.

Let's look at The Daily Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?_DARGS=/core/search/genericSimpleSearch.jhtml

Litvinenko was mentined 2 times in 2000 and only 1 time in 2006 (March).

There is a natural question. If he is so important 'critic of the Kremlin' then why he was not mentioned in British mass-media frequently?

Putin and his men are able to kill everybody everywhere but mr.Pitin is not an idiot. It would be clear that a big fuss around the death would be a problem for Russia.
 
#12
rickshaw-major said:
Virgil said:
Odds are Mr Lugovoy will assume room temperature sometime in the near future. A nice way to cover tracks.
Be a bit colder than that where he get put :twisted:

Sergey on a more serious note, it may well be that "criminals" attempted to solve the Berezovsky problem in the same way as the Litvinenko one. It is hghly doubtful if Scotland Yard would try and be silly simply because official circles leak like old tin buckets and they would be found out.
I don't think that Berezovsky is a big problem for Putin. The majority of Russians regard mr.Berezovsky merely as a thief. In fact his is a political cadaver. Money that he has allegedly 'borrowed' (alas) can't be returned.

Call for extradiction were made formally. Everybody understands that the UK will never extadict mr.Berezovsky.
 
#13
That's a very subtle attempt at moving the subject onto the British security services.

As I said mate, complete denial will get you through.
 
#14
I said at the start I don't believe President Putin or any offical Russian agency was responsible for this, due to the manner and sheer extravagance of the assassination.

It was designed to send a public message, and to inflict as much public suffering on the victim as possible.

I'm reasonably sure any Russian agency involved would have the means to ensure it looked like suicide or natural causes and maintain deniability.

I'd be more concerned that the Russian criminal fraternity can lay it's hands on material like this relatively easily.

NB. Sergey , one small edit of your last post to add one word. :)
 
#15
PartTimePongo said:
I said at the start I don't believe President Putin or any offical Russian agency was responsible for this, due to the manner and sheer extravagance of the assassination.

It was designed to send a public message, and to inflict as much public suffering on the victim as possible.

I'm reasonably sure any Russian agency would have the means to ensure it looked like suicide or natural causes.

I'd be more concerned that the Russian criminal fraternity can lay it's hands on material like this relatively easily.


Its only the tip of the Iceberg PTP. From where I am, we get loads of reports of confirmed police and national SF interventions (in former SU)arresting people for all manner of attempts to obtain or be in possession of this type of material.

Luckily they appear to be on top of the problem
 
#16
I think many miss the point here - lots of Russians (can't speak for Sergey though) believe that Litvinenko was bumped off for running at the mouth - but they just don't care. Indeed, they expect it. It means there's a strong man running Russia and that's what they want. Security trumps democracy any day.

We may look in from outside and see the democracy process of the 90's as a glorious triumph - but many Russians saw it as a thoroughly miserable time when the West and a variety of home grown oligarchs looted the place and the people suffered. Putin was elected as an answer to all that and so far he's delivered what many want. Long term though, who knows ?

Personally I can't get excited about what Russia is doing at the moment - which is acting as they have done since they emerged as a distinct country. They can be an enemy or an ally and I'd plump for ally any day. I mean, we surround them with newly minted members of NATO who don't like them very much, plan to deploy missile defence systems on their borders and wonder why they take offence. If Russia deployed ABM systems in, say, Mexico or Venezuela the screams from the Pentagon would be heard in orbit. Why do we expect Russia to roll over ? And why should we ?
 
#17
PartTimePongo said:
I said at the start I don't believe President Putin or any offical Russian agency was responsible for this, due to the manner and sheer extravagance of the assassination.

It was designed to send a public message, and to inflict as much public suffering on the victim as possible.

I'm reasonably sure any Russian agency involved would have the means to ensure it looked like suicide or natural causes and maintain deniability.

I'd be more concerned that the Russian criminal fraternity can lay it's hands on material like this relatively easily.

NB. Sergey , one small edit of your last post to add one word. :)
PTP, I understand your point and further corrected my post. Let's say that mr.Berezovsky allegedly 'borrowed' money. Equally, Chelsea has been baught for allegedly 'borrowed' money. However many Russians suspect that in the last case a word 'stolen' looks better.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/852890.stm

The Swiss authorities have handed over to Russian officials documents believed to be related to allegations that hundreds of millions of dollars were stolen from the Russian state airline, Aeroflot.
Now let's look how the Forbes describes mr.Berezovsky

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199900/ldjudgmt/jd000511/bere-1.htm

Is he the Godfather of the Kremlin? Power, Politics, Murder. Boris Berezovsky can teach the guys in Sicily a thing or two
Behind him lies a trail of corpses, uncollectible debts and competitors terrified for their lives.
There are many allegations that mr.Berezovsky standed behind many murders. In tubulent 90's he got in fact a full control over TV-1 after mysterious killing of its director - popular TV-anchor mr.Listyev.
 
#18
One_of_the_strange said:
I think many miss the point here - lots of Russians (can't speak for Sergey though) believe that Litvinenko was bumped off for running at the mouth - but they just don't care. Indeed, they expect it.
I agree and disagree.

I think that the Russians don't care who namely killed mr.Litvinenko. If Russian secret services did it then it's OK. If not, anyway the traitor went directly to the hell.
 

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