Ludicrous but frightening.

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#1
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=561762&in_page_id=1770

Strangely for someone who was brought up in post-war years, and has supported authority all their life, I now find myself with feelings akin to anarchy.
She added: "I had just picked up Chloe from nursery. We were both hungry so I got us a sausage roll to share.

"I had a bite and then bent down to give a bit to Chloe, who was on her bike.

"A tiny bit missed her mouth and fell on the floor and seconds later some pigeons flew down and grabbed it.

"I crossed the road and was approached by two men. I thought they were canvassers because they were dressed in tracksuit bottoms.

"But one came up to me, said he was from the council and said I was going to be fined for dropping litter.

"He wasn't polite at all - he was rude, and I began to walk away.

"He then said I would be arrested if I didn't give him my name and details and started reading me my rights on the street.

"I felt really small and humiliated. I was treated like I was a criminal."

She added: "Where is the common sense? It was a small, bite-sized piece - just big enough for Chloe's mouth.

"I went back to take a picture of the litter, but it had been gobbled by pigeons. There was no litter there at all."

The incident happened in Hull city centre on Monday and the fine arrived in the post yesterday.

Miss Davies, who lives with her mother Wendy, 44, said: "I just can't pay out £75 for this, I have to live on benefits of £94 a week.

"The letter says I must pay within 14 days, but I haven't got the money. I would be prepared to go to court.

"I agree that people should not drop litter, but I was not dropping litter. I was just feeding my daughter, who likes sausage rolls.

"It affected her as well. She came to me after it had happened and said, 'Mummy, I was scared when those men came up to me'. It's just not right."

I find this situation totally ridiculous, not to say worrying. Like most servicemen, I abhor litter, having been trained to accept that what is dropped may cause serious and possibly fatal consequences (harbour discipline). But, in this case does anyone else think the zealots have taken over? And is it not worrying that any number of people, including bin men, can cause one to have a criminal record for the most piddling of things?
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
Come on, if you were a council zealot, would you rather bully a young woman and a small child over a piece of sausage roll, or confront a large group of drug users and dealers using a broken down house, causing disturbance all night and intimidation to neighbours?

Keep up, ofnh!
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#4
So there is no evidence of littering because the birds ate it?

no evidence = no case. case closed M'Lud.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Personally, I would have slapped the little minx for getting mummy in trouble!
 
#8
Only £75, what a lucky woman!! Still there does seem to be a common trend of find the easy target in all areas of enforcement.
 
#10
What are they planning to do if she refused to give them her name and address?

Call a police community support officer to give her a ticking off?


If it was a couple of chavs they would no doubt have given the standard reply of "**** off!" and that would have been the end of it.
 
#11
old_fat_and_hairy said:
"He wasn't polite at all - he was rude, and I began to walk away.

"He then said I would be arrested if I didn't give him my name and details and started reading me my rights on the street.
Perhaps one of the arrse rozzers can confirm this but as far as I know these council knob ends have no powers of arrest so what is there to stop some one from walking away from them? Can they physically restrain a member of the public or would that be seen as false imprisonment? It sems like they are relying on bullying tactics to obtain personal details.


I think I will have a false driving licence made up in the name of Fuk Yu...
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#12
Since they appear to be wearing the uniform of tracksuits, it would behove them to carry some form of i.d I would strongly caution anyone not to give out personal details to people who are not entitled to ask. Although it now seems that just about anyone has power to demand details now.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Now that would have been good . . . she gets read her rights and then handcuffed before being marched off to the cop-shop with social services being called in!

Imagine the outcry.

What is needed is the names of the two cokcs who threatened her - that would be a good thing.
 
#14
I find it quite astounding that a woman, alone with a child, was willing to give her name and address to two strange men dressed in tracksuit bottoms! Even if they are council workers you just wouldn't give your name and address to them ... they could still be burglars, thieves or rapists!

Not to detract from the absurdity of the case in anyway of course.
 
#15
What I want to know what they could arrest her for? Is littering an indictable offence? If it isnt, then any attempt to place her under 'citizen's arrest' would be unlawful, and would put the litter nazis into a lot of trouble.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#16
Since they appear to be wearing the uniform of tracksuits, it would behove them to carry some form of i.d I would strongly caution anyone not to give out personal details to people who are not entitled to ask. Although it now seems that just about anyone has power to demand details now.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#17
k13eod said:
I find it quite astounding that a woman, alone with a child, was willing to give her name and address to two strange men dressed in tracksuit bottoms! Even if they are council workers you just wouldn't give your name and address to them ... they could still be burglars, thieves or rapists!

Not to detract from the absurdity of the case in anyway of course.
Sadly, some people are easily bullied, and there is no doubt that bullies are employed by the organisations that follow these procedures. Somewhat reminiscent of car clampers, they quote rote-learned excerpts of legislation and intimidate by size and presence.
I'm by no means an impressive or formidable looking bloke, but I was present when these tactics were tried on a female friend, an intelligent and capable woman, who was quite shaken by the approach. It was only my intervention and knowledge of law that saved her from brutish bully boy tactics.
 
#18
old_fat_and_hairy said:
k13eod said:
I find it quite astounding that a woman, alone with a child, was willing to give her name and address to two strange men dressed in tracksuit bottoms! Even if they are council workers you just wouldn't give your name and address to them ... they could still be burglars, thieves or rapists!

Not to detract from the absurdity of the case in anyway of course.
Sadly, some people are easily bullied, and there is no doubt that bullies are employed by the organisations that follow these procedures. Somewhat reminiscent of car clampers, they quote rote-learned excerpts of legislation and intimidate by size and presence.
I'm by no means an impressive or formidable looking bloke, but I was present when these tactics were tried on a female friend, an intelligent and capable woman, who was quite shaken by the approach. It was only my intervention and knowledge of law that saved her from brutish bully boy tactics.
As I said, not to detract from what happened. And you are right O_F_A_H ... bully boys using bully boy tactics. But this should be taken into account and she should counter claim that she has been forced to give her personal details to two strange men who intimidated her on the street at the behest of the local council.
 
#19
k13eod said:
old_fat_and_hairy said:
k13eod said:
I find it quite astounding that a woman, alone with a child, was willing to give her name and address to two strange men dressed in tracksuit bottoms! Even if they are council workers you just wouldn't give your name and address to them ... they could still be burglars, thieves or rapists!

Not to detract from the absurdity of the case in anyway of course.
Sadly, some people are easily bullied, and there is no doubt that bullies are employed by the organisations that follow these procedures. Somewhat reminiscent of car clampers, they quote rote-learned excerpts of legislation and intimidate by size and presence.
I'm by no means an impressive or formidable looking bloke, but I was present when these tactics were tried on a female friend, an intelligent and capable woman, who was quite shaken by the approach. It was only my intervention and knowledge of law that saved her from brutish bully boy tactics.
As I said, not to detract from what happened. And you are right O_F_A_H ... bully boys using bully boy tactics. But this should be taken into account and she should counter claim that she has been forced to give her personal details to two strange men who intimidated her on the street at the behest of the local council.
At the risk of being un-PC, at 20 years old she isn't a great deal more than a kid. She was bullied and intimidated by two plonkers in the employ of the local council.
Can anybody tell me exactly who has the right to demand you identify yourself? I mean a legal right like Plod, not an imagined right like some of these poeple seem to imply.
Its disgusting behavior to be honest, imagine the outrage if the daughter of a local councilor was accosted in such a manner? Somehow I don't see any of these tracksuit uniformed thugs trying quite the same approach with any of the larger gentlemen that grace these pages.
Nice to see authorities really addressing the issues that matter in society today
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#20
I absolutely agree with you. The only fly in the ointment is to whom does she complain? The councils don't give a flying fart, as is shown by their initial reaction to her correspondence. At the risk of sounding like an even older fart, I recall when councils -city or county - were there to serve the electors. They employed people to empty the bins, mend the roads, make sure street lights worked and all the other facilities worked. They provided public toilets, public baths and swimming pools and were content to have the words 'Blankshire R.D.C. on side of council vehicles. They were 'governed ' by an Alderman or Town Clerk, or Borough Clerk. Now, they have Cabinets. They are paid more than the Prime Minister in some cases and have taken it upon themselves to utter total tripe as slogans. On side of refuse vehs; 'Working together for a cleaner environment'. As opposed to what?
They have sought and obtained executive powers to issue summons and have people arrested. It seems their mission is not to collect refuse, or do anything else that used to be counted as part of their brief. Now they employ 'Streetscene Co-ordinators' WTF? Outreach ounsellors; condom distributors and specialise in services for everyone except the heterosexual. They have become just like central government, but pettier, yet as determined to extract the most money for the fewest services.
 

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