Lt Timothy Wray (RE)

#1
Morning chaps

Was wondering through a chuch yard at the weekend (sad ex Bootie eh?) when I came across a grave stone. The name on the stone was "Lt Timothy Wray (RE) 1952 - 1974"

It would appear to be the only Servicemans grave in the church yard, and as the guy would have only been 22 years old at the time of his demise I wondered if it was Operational related?

Anyone know of this chap or how he passed away?

;)
 
#2
If you were to ask at the IWM in London, they have the facility to check I believe.

I cannot remember a Lt Wray of any particular note killed in recent (well, relatively) conflict
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#3
There is a MOD casualty office that can let you know. They sorted me out for the locations of mates graves post NI!
Dont bug the IWM as they are not there for that, if its WW2 or earlier then Commonwealth War Graves after WW2 then its the MOD Casualty people.
The Joint Casualty and Compassionate centre (JCCC) is responsible for authorising Compassionate Leave Travel from overseas for Service personnel, their dependants based abroad (Including Northern Ireland), and mobilised reservists and Territorial Army. The Joint casualty and Compassionate Centre is located at AFPAA, RAF Innsworth, Gloucester, GL3 1HW. (0044) 01452 519951. It is manned round the clock 365 days per year.
Non-World War Graves (NWG)
PS4(A)Cas/Comp is the section within the Ministry of Defence with responsibility for the provision of military headstones for the graves of recently deceased soldiers.

The cell is also responsible for maintaining all Overseas Non World War Graves (NWG) as they are know from 1948 onwards, and many others from earlier dates.

Although there are currently no plans to release a list of NWG on the Internet, PS4(A)Cas/Comp will answer any questions you may have about the grave locations of individual soldiers.

If you are searching for the grave of a relation, ex-comrade, or friend who died in service, please contact PS4(A)Cas/Comp by writing or by telephone.

Contact Address
PS4(A)Cas/Comp, Building 43, Trenchard Lines, Upavon, Wilts SN9 6BE.

Contact telephone
01980 615559 or 618284.

WW1 and WW2
PS4(A)Cas/Comp is also responsible for identifying the remains of World War 1 and 2 soldiers, as well as those from other past conflicts, that are discovered. This aspect of our work is carried out in conjunction with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

Once a soldier has been identified, PS4(A)Cas/Comp is then responsible for tracing the most closely related surviving family member, or descendant and for arranging a military funeral in the country in which the remains have been found.

Recent cases have included: Private Richard Clarke, Royal Welch Fusiliers; Private George Nugent, Northumberland Fusiliers; and Private Harry Wilkinson, Lancashire Fusiliers.

War Graves in Britain
Unfortunately, there are some war graves which lie forgotten and overgrown in neglected corners of graveyards in towns and villages across the country. "War Graves in Britain" is a voluntary campaign run to try to persuade local people to keep these graves tidy. Click here to go to their website.
 
#4
Guys, thanks the above advice.

I should have explained things in more detail - The grave is not a military grave, it is a family one, which is shared by the parents.

Timothy Wray passed away before both his mother and father, and it is only the fact that his inscription reads "Lt Timothy Wray (RE)" that gives any clue that he was in the Army. Working on his age at time of death (22 years old in 1974) I think that it is a fair assumption that he was still serving, I was just trying to find out if he lost his life as a result of Operations as opposed to illness or RTA etc.

As the grave is a family one I don't know if it would be classed as a "War grave" as such?

;)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#5
regardless of war grave or not the casualty section should have it on record. One of the lads I served with murdered in Belfast by a bomb and shares a plot with his mother! The cas lads sorted out all the details for me short of a grid reference.
 
#6
Would they actually give me details of the events surrounding his death?

The reason I'm interested in this, is that if this lad did die in the line of duty then I would like to try to get his details placed on the war memorial, which is also in the same church yard.

I've been out of the RM for coming up 17 years now, but feel really strongly when servicemen and women do not get the recognition that the deserve.

Jim
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#7
Getting names on the war memorial is difficult. That now I beleive falls under CWGC and they only really do the big 2. If there is a space or column marked Killed on Operations after WW2 then you have a chance, otherwise he should end up on the National memorial at Alrewas!
They may have the details of his death but they may require that from you to prove connection in anyway?
They were helpful and I dont recall handing over my Army number or any details beyond I served with!
 
#8
ugly said:
Getting names on the war memorial is difficult. That now I beleive falls under CWGC and they only really do the big 2. If there is a space or column marked Killed on Operations after WW2 then you have a chance, otherwise he should end up on the National memorial at Alrewas!
They may have the details of his death but they may require that from you to prove connection in anyway?
They were helpful and I dont recall handing over my Army number or any details beyond I served with!
The war memorial at Oban lists a Marine killed in the Falklands. 18 years old as I recall. The war memorial in Stone, Staffordshire has a soldier killed in GW1 if my memory serves.

Why shouldn't towns and villages continue to add names to local war memorials?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#9
Why shouldn't towns and villages continue to add names to local war memorials?
100% in agreement, just pointing out historical problems. maybe the memorials were raised to honour our lost from certain conflicts and usually by some sort of private donation/public subscription and the rules or even size then may preclude adding names later.
It seems a pity that the local village memorial where I grew up didnt carry the Korean war dead or the Malayan and Borneo lot, there must have been some!
 
#10
I'd always assumed that the paucity of names after WWII was because statistically there weren't large numbers of casualties. I always remove headgear when passing a war memorial and try to read all the names if I can.

Doesn't RBL have a position on this?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
Not sure about RBL policy but if it is stuck in the past it needs updating. here in Gods waiting room the cenotaph bears no names. They are all engraved on oak panels in the halls of the town hall. I remember similar stuff in long block in peninsula bks.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
Good link there, I couldnt find out about him
 
#14
ugly said:
Why shouldn't towns and villages continue to add names to local war memorials?
100% in agreement, just pointing out historical problems. maybe the memorials were raised to honour our lost from certain conflicts and usually by some sort of private donation/public subscription and the rules or even size then may preclude adding names later.
It seems a pity that the local village memorial where I grew up didnt carry the Korean war dead or the Malayan and Borneo lot, there must have been some!
Interesting points. Local Councils are the legal authority for public war memorials. I've been aware of names from post-war conflicts being added to war memorials in Scotland, without any difficulty or controversy.

It may take someone outside the Council, eg RHQ or the family or RBL, to take the initiative and ask for a name to be added. Local authorities will understandably not wish to add names on their own say-so unless the deceased's local connection is clear: ironically, a similar issue to that encountered in electoral registration, and homeless persons legislation - "social housing discrimination".
 
#16
ugly said:
Good link there, I couldnt find out about him
The name Lt. Wray has a small d beside it, possibly for deceased, If Jim4244, contacts the website's host, he could possibly shed some light as to whether its the same guy and if so, what were the circumstances of his demise.
 
#18
Have just heard back.

Lt Timothy Wray was killed in an RTA, apparently whislt on leave after an Op Banner tour of NI......

Jim
 
#20
The town council in Welshpool refused to add the name of a local lad killed on Telic as they said he wasnt killed in a war. They also refused to have the town hall flag at halfmast, however whenever one of those pr1cks croaks it the flag is lowered.
As was explained before councils often have no authority to add names. I also know for certain that central government set out criteria for flags to be flown at half mast and it has never been done for soldiers killed in action so far as I am aware.
 
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