LSWs bad luck Inf.

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Pickle, Jan 19, 2003.

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  1. I hear on the grapevine that all of our countys LSWs have been taken from our armourey and giving to the regs for Gulf War MK2....

    all i can say is GUTTED

    because they dont work on ex in england.. let alone in the desert. So my sympathy with the poor bastard that gets stuck with it.

    Ben
     
  2. Maybe someone has not much experience of said weapon to make a comment like that.. hope I'm wrong
     
  3. Yeh i was expecting something like that.
    True I dont have as much experience of the LSW as a full time soldier. But i do know how to clean it and use it properly and have been taught the exact same way as you.
    I am not slating the actual LSW as a weapon either. However what i am saying is that these weapons in partcular are not well maintaned, they are more than five years old (do not kno the exact age) and have been handled by 100s of cadets, varying in skill. We do not have an Armourer and these weapons have not been serviced either. Which means they are very prone to ******* up.
    So in a way u are right, these weapons are in a shit state because of bad use, but it isnt because of what i have had experiences of them on ex... but because of what i have heard and seen with myself and other people when the weapons are properly maintaned.


    Ben
     
  4. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    Pickle..I can't tell if you are an AI or cadet from your post. Either way I suspect that this is jungle grapevine stuff. My Regt sponsors an ACF County and as you say, you don't have an armourer, but we do hence about twice a year all ACF weapons are centralised and serviced/stripped/repaired before being sent back again. Even TA units have not had their weapons withdrawn as there are stocks at the TA Mobilisation Centre in Chilwell to issue out to soldiers who volunteer for FTRS or who have been called up. Don't you think that the TA's weapons (maintained to a higher standard) would have been centralised before those beonging to the ACF? Suggesting that ACF LSWs are being centralised for use on operations is rather like saying that the RAF are going to paint all of the Grob Vigilant trainers used by the Air Experience Flights, which are used to teach air cadets basic principles of flight, air superiority grey and arm them with cannons and unguided rockets for point air defence, in other words; barking mad nonesense!

    While you use the cadet GP rifle variant of the SA80A, the LSW is essentially the same, however the bulk of the LSWs you have come from regular or TA units which have handed them back for technical reasons. I don't believe you are allowed to live fire it, rather you can only use blanks so the issues that made the weapons u/s in the first place are not an issue.

    I would doubt that LSWs are being pulled out of ACF units for use by operational troops, I suspect that there is a more rational explanation. Perhaps checking the armoury log should answer your query as an entry will have been made when the weapons were taken out.
     
  5. 'Tis true...our CCF's LSW was nabbed just before Christmas, the reason being, not for war reserves or any other silly suggestions, but to be given to non-frontline units as replacements whilst theirs go back to H+K to be upgraded to A2 variant, and will be returned in a year or two.

    On the topic of maintenance, although us cadets are generally fairly shoddy in maintaining them, there are inspections or servicing or something along those lines every 6 months by the MOD, and all the weapons are kept up to scratch.

    By the way, as this is the first post of mine for a while, thanks to woopert and everone else for your advice for RCB-Briefing - i got a 2-6 for being a fat knacker, and am off to RCB in July, hopefully having laid off the pies for a bit! ;D

    Regards

    SJ


    edited because of chronic inability to spell!
     
  6. On the subject of LSW
    Which tw@t ordered a section fire support weapon with a built in stoppage every 30 rounds?
     
  7. No we can fire LSWs live, have done many times.
    I am a cadet not AI. Yeah fair point about the TA, however if they took the TA weapons away for the regs, what would the TA have to fight with if they got called up. Makes more sense to take them from the Cadets who will definitley not need them in a war. Because on paper they work the same as the ones the regs use..

    On the subject of the TA weapons being better maintaned I have seen some TA units, that are total gash and their weapons were gopping when they came out on the area. I know this because they lent us 4 for FIBUA. However not referring to any other TA unit, because i dont know.

    Edited to remove the name of the unit in question.
    Woopert
     
  8. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    Ref my last on Chilwell. Armoury stocks are kept to be issued to TA soldiers when they turn up for pre-mobilisation training so that unit armouries are not depleted.

    Again, ref my last. Each ACF county is issued a number of LSWs a few of which will be new, but the majority are weapons which have been withdrawn from TA or regular armouries for various reasons.
     
  9. Isnt it true that a cadet under 16yrs must not have access to auto wpns. The cadets at my TAC (over 16)borrow our LSW,s. As to the TA not maintaining wpns thats CR#P. Our wpns are inspected by the Unit armouror every 2 months.
     
  10. yes...and it is now true that cadets under 16 can't use those little yellow in-ear ear defenders, they must use big green ones (MOD issue ONLY!) when within 50 m of a blank! the trouble being, that they only issue 24 of those to each CCF, each of which may well have around 80 under-16 cadets....sigh!

    Regards

    SJ
     
  11. Does that still hold true for exes attached to TA/Regs?

    I did a TA weekend with 2/51 Highland Volunteers (showing my age a bit) and they had nothing to give us but SLR's. Which was nice.
    Similarly, I did a BAOR attachment when I was but a spotty 15 yr old, and we got the works when we went on exercise, barring thunderflashes and bayonets obviously.!
     
  12. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    We have been asked countless times to help out with the ACF, and each time we have to say no because the 1 time we did organise an ex involving them it turned into an admin nightmare. The sad thing is that there are a number of ex cadets in my Regt who would be quite happy to give up a weekend to run an ex for the ACF, and the previous Corps RSM would have supported any move to get the ACF involved because he thought that it was a great tool for recruiting.

    If the ACF are involved in anything that has reg or TA soldiers in it (such as playing enemy on an ex) the there have to be sufficient staff/cadet ratios (understandable) and the soldiers are not allowed any contact with the cadets which is not supervised by ACF staff. All of the cadets movements on the ex have to be done in accordance with cadet SOPs which mean that on fire and manouvre all weapons have to be made safe before anyone can move (fire a round, stop firing, make safe, move no more than 5m, check everyone is prone, order safety catches off, give the order to fire, make safe and so on). Even if you try and work with the 16-18 y/o they are subject to the same restrictions. At 16 you can join the army and use the SA80 under normal training conditions, but an 18 y/o cadet has to be treated like a 13 y/o. The problem isn't restricted to weapons either. We can't transport them in military vehicles, they can only use PRC 349, we can't get them up before a certain time in the morning or do night exes that go on past a certain time and so on.

    The net result is that the reg RLC (and even the TA) who would love to get the older cadets involved and recruited find it just isn't worth their while, and both recruiting figuers and the ACF loose out. I was in the RAF section of the CCF at school in the late 80's and the RAF would let us play with/fly in/fire anything we could get our hands on and that made a number of my class mates interested in the RAF as a career (in my year I know of 1 commissioned into the RAF Regt, 1 who went into pilot training and was chopped and left, and 1 who is a loady). If the only time you can play with kit, weapons, and vehicles now is in the OTC then there is a whole generation of future recruits being missed out.
     
  13. Strewth! If that's the case, they've well tightened up the safety regs since my day!
    If I was cadet JNCO, I'd be thoroughly cheesed. Under those circumstances, what's the point in getting your boots dirty at all?
    I saw my old detachment's website the other day. On the photos page there was a piccie of a big fat AI hogging the LSW-it didn't have any flippin sights!?!
    Is this unusual? Or do all cadet units take off sights for trogging in the fields? :-/
     
  14. No, we do have SUSATs with the LSWs and you are not even allowed to take it off without AI supervision. I have seen some Cadet Units who use Iron Sights with the LSW, but i have never seen anyone without any sight at all.

    The rules are getting stupid, and they are getting worse. I did a FIBUA course just before Christmas and the stuff that we were allowed to do was limited. We were not even allowed to throw those plastic training grenades (dunno what they are called).

    But this saftey issue is not just limited to the army. At school in Design Tech, we are not even allowed to wire plugs up. the official ruling is that we wire them up while being supervised by a teacher. Then they have to call in a qualified electrical technician.

    The army seemed to have countered the difficulties of excercising with the Regs by introducing Acquaint Courses and specific Cadet week/weekend courses. Most Regiments do these. I have recently spent a Week on Ex-RE cadet at Gib Barracks. Which was very informative. The Army has also introduced Cadet Training Teams (CTT)
    These help the Cadet AIs with more military training and they also run Courses Such as the SCIC (Senior Cadet Instructors Course)
     
  15. Well, fortunatley in the CCF, as opposed to ACF, it is run pretty much exclusivley by ex soldiers, and teaching staff...most of whom have very little time for most of the absurd cadet rules, as most of them are plainly mad! I have never come across this not getting up before a certain time/minimum amount of sleep thingie, and on most 24 hour exercises go without sleep, and there are very few complaints.

    As to only using 349s, being cadets, and very cynical,  we have a 351, and a 320, but nobody is going to carry the buggers, so we use mobiles (which soldiers have NEVER had to rely on, obviously  ;D ).

    We arn't allowed thunderflashes, smoke, bayonettes etc - which is fair enough, but then neither are AIs any more (!).

    And another of the more bizzare rules is that we can't wear helmets, at any age, as they will 'impair our growth' - even if you wear one for all of about 10 days a year, even when your 17/18!!!

    And as for the make-safe whilst doing an advance to contact or CQB trail...what utter twoddle thought up that one? the only time i have seen that enforced is during a central cadet camp somewhere down south...


    Frankly, its all mad, but we are fortunate to have people that don't believe in it, if all thsi was infoced, I would have packed it in long ago, and probably wouldn't be applying to join the army now. This sort of rubbish is putting people off before they even start, and as such the Army is throwing down the drain a very valuble recruiting tool!
     
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