LSW, LMG and 60mm to go

This guy does a write up on the differences between suppressed and un-suppressed. Pretty much says the same as what ugly stated.
Ask Foghorn: Does a Silencer Affect the Velocity of the Bullet? - The Truth About Guns
Our MARS-L's have the WARCOMP as a muzzle device. Its a combination of a compensator and a flash hider. As the rd leaves the barrel it enters the first chamber of the WARCOMP where gases are vented through a series of holes at the 12 and 3 O'clock position that mitigates muzzle climb. Then into the last section where the prongs help get rid of most the flash.
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This guy does a write up on the differences between suppressed and un-suppressed. Pretty much says the same as what ugly stated.
Ask Foghorn: Does a Silencer Affect the Velocity of the Bullet? - The Truth About Guns
Our MARS-L's have the WARCOMP as a muzzle device. Its a combination of a compensator and a flash hider. As the rd leaves the barrel it enters the first chamber of the WARCOMP where gases are vented through a series of holes at the 12 and 3 O'clock position that mitigates muzzle climb. Then into the last section where the prongs help get rid of most the flash.
View attachment 376204
Despite my history ( weaned as a 14yo on the No4) and acquired inclination therefore to scoff at them as think that SLR had recoil, I'm warming to the these things.

But part of me is struggling with the apparent total absence of negatives here.

Nothing? Zip? Zilch?

Really?
 
Indeed if anyone recalls the Browning Boss system which allowed sweet spots to be tuned in on the muzzle for different loads
I've always wondered how well those BOSS tuners worked, it always made me wonder whether it was a bit like hi-fi enthusiasts and their fads (Special green felt-tips to draw round the edge of your CDs! Laying cables with the arrows on the cables pointing in the same direction!).

I've actually got a barrel tuner on my smallbore target rifle (it's an integral part of the barrel extension tube [1]). A little bit of playing left me with the suspicion that it doesn't make any difference to a "good" batch of ammunition, and as I only buy ammunition matched to my barrel... (the Eley test range is near to my sister's place, and selected ammo costs the same as unselected). And yes, I appreciate that smallbore barrels are a black art, reserved for obsessive-compulsive weirdos...

I'm not really going to improve much on ten-shot groups at 50m that are fairly round and 15mm edge-to-edge (for a 5.6mm bullet); so it just sits on the end of the gun unchanged.

Any fule (apart from those trained by the SASC) know that
Unfortunately, too many don't (even me, in my younger days). Take "ruining the chamber brush or barrel brush by using them to clean gas parts" as a worked example; not bothering with barrier cream when cleaning; or the ever-favourite "in my day we cleaned a rifle in half an hour without Scotchbrite and only using four pieces of flannelette, or we were flogged to death across a gun carriage, you're in your own time now, what do you mean you need more?".

[1] sticking an eight-inch tube onto the end of the muzzle allows me to put the foresight further away; easier on my aging eyes, and a longer sight base can't hurt... and yes, it mitigates the sound ever so slightly :)
 
Despite my history ( weaned as a 14yo on the No4) and acquired inclination therefore to scoff at them as think that SLR had recoil, I'm warming to the these things.

But part of me is struggling with the apparent total absence of negatives here.

Nothing? Zip? Zilch?

Really?
I think its just technology slowly catching up, especially with the drive for shorter barrels and lighter weapons, the need to deal with the extra flash and muzzle climb blast is more apparent. Things like breaks and flash suppressors have been around for a long time but it is just refining them into something that is practical and where possible dual purpose.
 
I think its just technology slowly catching up, especially with the drive for shorter barrels and lighter weapons, the need to deal with the extra flash and muzzle climb blast is more apparent. Things like breaks and flash suppressors have been around for a long time but it is just refining them into something that is practical and where possible dual purpose.
My concern would be that (as ever) MoD would expect these things to enable inadequately trained soldiers to shoot like the 1914 BEF without the associated commitment of time money and effort.

Battalion commanders who don't understand the training commitment required to attain expertise with any tool or weapon (meaning most of them) will happily collude in this charade.
 
Battalion commanders who don't understand the training commitment required to attain expertise with any tool or weapon (meaning most of them)...
It's not as if it's taken seriously by RMAS or School of Infantry - so if they aren't taught it by their instructors, why should they understand it when let loose on their own?
 
It's not as if it's taken seriously by RMAS or School of Infantry - so if they aren't taught it by their instructors, why should they understand it when let loose on their own?
Exactly my point.

And - seemingly - sufficiently embedded, is this attitude, in our Infantry culture, that the better part of a decade and a half of serious small arms combat in the dustboxes of the Middle East and South Asia has not dented it one iota.
 
The only mainline subsonic as standard rifle-calibre ammunition used by any army is the 9x39mm calibre stuff used since the Soviet period by our Russian cousins. And there's a huge amount of different assault rifles, sniper rifles, carbines and almost submachine-gun like weapons that feed on it.

9×39mm - Wikipedia gives an overview of the round.

9A-91 compact assult rifle (Russia) - Modern Firearms

OTs-14 Groza - Modern Firearms

VSS - Modern Firearms

are just a few of the weapons that go very silently bang using it.

I've seen articles stating that .300 AAC Blackout is getting some traction in the Western military, but mainly for sneaky beaky types and nowhere near as widespread as the 9x39mm round weapons are implemented.
 
My concern would be that (as ever) MoD would expect these things to enable inadequately trained soldiers to shoot like the 1914 BEF without the associated commitment of time money and effort.
Battalion commanders who don't understand the training commitment required to attain expertise with any tool or weapon (meaning most of them) will happily collude in this charade.
That was one thing that became clear going from the Steyr/1.5X optic to the MARS-L/4X ACOG. It would enhance the abilities of someone who could apply fire but wasn't going to turn crap shots into good ones, If anything it would amplify their errors. A general rule of thumb I use is the power of the optic is the power of the error, as an example you may not pick up a guys is chucking split groups with the 1.5X and think they are just wide ones but put him behind the 4x and you'd start to see it develop into separate distinct groups.
 
That was one thing that became clear going from the Steyr/1.5X optic to the MARS-L/4X ACOG. It would enhance the abilities of someone who could apply fire but wasn't going to turn crap shots into good ones, If anything it would amplify their errors. A general rule of thumb I use is the power of the optic is the power of the error, as an example you may not pick up a guys is chucking split groups with the 1.5X and think they are just wide ones but put him behind the 4x and you'd start to see it develop into separate distinct groups.
Don't tell me.

Explain it to CGS, on the record, recording the conversation, including the Q&A session when you test his comprehension.

It's what YouChoob is for
 
Don't tell me.

Explain it to CGS, on the record, recording the conversation, including the Q&A session when you test his comprehension.

It's what YouChoob is for
Haha, I guess that's one of the few luxuries of being a small Defence force. Being able to sit back and see what everyone else has done right or wrong and "Hopefully" learn from it.
It is funny when you explain this all to a staff officer and you see the light switch on for them, especially when you explain how it will be more effective in the long run (also cheaper). They generally shoot off to educate their other Staff Officer mates of their new found small arms prowess and before you know it, its gone full circle and another staff officer is trying to explain it to you your own points generally with their own swing on things.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I've actually got a barrel tuner on my smallbore target rifle (it's an integral part of the barrel extension tube [1]). A little bit of playing left me with the suspicion that it doesn't make any difference to a "good" batch of ammunition, and as I only buy ammunition matched to my barrel... (the Eley test range is near to my sister's place, and selected ammo costs the same as unselected). And yes, I appreciate that smallbore barrels are a black art, reserved for obsessive-compulsive weirdos...
2013? I think that was the Anschutz designation. You are right though the BOSS is an adjustable damper (or was) and allowed folk testing different batches of factory ammo to tune out the harmonics by damping the muzzle end with a slightly moveable weight. Those fancy below stock weights were the entry level drug into tuning rifles for ammo but frankly as you said if you have the right load then it isn't needed.
 
2013? I think that was the Anschutz designation.
One of them, anyway - the 20-series was the heavy flat-bottomed action that they brought out with a short barrel and an extension tube that took it out to a more normal overall length. You don't see many still around at the top level; it's nearly all 19-series, as the round actions are much less of a pain to fit into a non-Anschutz stock. Four bedding bolts is overkill for smallbore...

With Anschutz model numbers, the first two digits are the action; the next two are the stock it leaves the factory with. -07 for a prone-only standard stock, -12 for a lightweight stock aimed at the Womens' event, -13 for a "free rifle"[1] stock. Same barrel and action in each...

Look around the World Cup circuit, or Olympics, and no-one's using tuners - although plenty are using extension tubes. Anyway, mine is a selected 1913 in a System Gemini free rifle stock, with a Time Precision tuner / extension tube (a US firm having a US fascination with non-metric threads, the gits - you try and find 5/32 AW bolts, or whatever it was, in the UK). Sad spotter that I am.

[1] "Free Rifle" - bolt anything onto it that you like, within defined limits; under 8.5kg for blokes, 6.5kg for women. Even with a heavy barrel, mine weighs in at 6.3kg or so...
 
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One of them, anyway - the 20-series was the heavy flat-bottomed action that they brought out with a short barrel and an extension tube that took it out to a more normal overall length. You don't see many still around at the top level; it's nearly all 19-series, as the round actions are much less of a pain to fit into a non-Anschutz stock. Four bedding bolts is overkill for smallbore...

With Anschutz model numbers, the first two digits are the action; the next two are the stock it leaves the factory with. -07 for a prone-only standard stock, -12 for a lightweight stock aimed at the Womens' event, -13 for a "free rifle"[1] stock. Same barrel and action in each...

Look around the World Cup circuit, or Olympics, and no-one's using tuners - although plenty are using extension tubes. Anyway, mine is a selected 1913 in a System Gemini free rifle stock, with a Time Precision tuner / extension tube (a now-defunct US firm with a US fascination with non-metric threads, the gits - you try and find 5/32 AW bolts, or whatever it was, in the UK). Sad spotter that I am.

[1] "Free Rifle" - bolt anything onto it that you like, within defined limits; under 8.5kg for blokes, 6.5kg for women. Even with a heavy barrel, mine weighs in at 6.3kg or so...
Warning.

Gun Porn Thread Drift.
 
But in his case its more niche porn, think BDSM with electric shock therapy combined and maybe a little scat.
Nah, it's pretty enough (looks a bit like this) but it's not real gun porn. I don't fondle it every day, carry it in public, or insist that it will defend me against Tyranny; it just gets hauled out every couple of weeks to shoot my league cards for the club, then given a quick push-through and chucked back in the cupboard. Granted, the jacket's getting tighter, but then it is fifteen years old...

The full bondage gear doesn't get used much since I stopped doing standing / kneeling competitions, and my SCATT really isn't what it sounds like. More a one-lane SAT or DCCT...

 
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Nah, it's pretty enough (looks a bit like this) but it's not real gun porn. I don't fondle it every day, carry it in public, or insist that it will defend me against Tyranny; it just gets hauled out every couple of weeks to shoot my league cards for the club, then given a quick push-through and chucked back in the cupboard. Granted, the jacket's getting tighter, but then it is fifteen years old...

The full bondage gear doesn't get used much since I stopped doing standing / kneeling competitions, and my SCATT really isn't what it sounds like. More a one-lane SAT or DCCT...

ooer, showing a bit of ankle in kinky low boots.....
 
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