LSW, LMG and 60mm to go

If mech or airportable yes. We did the airmobile trials
What, was that the mid-80s "6 Airmobile Bde", alongside 1 GORDONS? Something like 40-odd MILAN posts in the battalion? (...and all those Longline LSVs, or was that the mid-90s "24 Bde" variation on the theme....)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
What, was that the mid-80s "6 Airmobile Bde", alongside 1 GORDONS? Something like 40-odd MILAN posts in the battalion? (...and all those Longline LSVs, or was that the mid-90s "24 Bde" variation on the theme....)
Thats the one, good fun for a year and the investment in our Bn paid off.
 
Until you have to fire-and-manoeuvre carrying some of the 7.62mm link it's burning through. Or, doing dash-down-crawl-observe-sights-fire with a GPMG trailing linked rounds (that snag on everything) in undergrowth and trying to sort out belt changes while also skirmishing forwards or backwards.

Fantastic weapon for defensive and static warfare, not so good if you ever hope to close with the enemy. It's a platoon's support, not a personal weapon for someone in a rifle section.
Worked fine in Rhodesia, and the undergrowth there was much worse than Europe. Wag-'n-bietjie (Wait a Bit ) and Buffalo beans are hell.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
It's not a burden! When you are blessed with the tender loving care of 'The General' and it's little brass passengers you are merely transporting it and the link to a release point where it transforms the link into noisy & flashy high velocity bundles of '**** off' that merrily whizzes towards the enemy and all of the enemies belongings. Sometimes you get to sit on top of hills and a stream of happy souls bring you boxes or belts of link so you can spread the love towards more of the enemy :)
Add in a 15km patrol and carrying the weight means the rounds are off target so don’t count.

We’re unable to quantify whether a belt-fed weapon that means soldiers move out of the FUP to the position against a live enemy is better than having soldiers launch with questionable fire support on to a dead enemy is better.

That’s art over science and people will argue for decades.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
The South African 60mm is in use here in Ireland but some of it's bombs showed an annoying tendency to shed the tail fins (the whole lot) just after the bomb had left the barrel, so the bomb would go for a wander instead of going where it expected to go. In an Army where the original 60mm Brandt was involved in several fatal accidents in it's time, this tends to make the users a bit nervous.
South African BAe I think
Not me personally but it is South African bombs that came with them.
Both RDM and BAe ?
(Didn't think BAe produced ammunition in SA.)
Any idea of the precise type ?
I'd be wanting batch nos and dates.

How often does this occur ?
Any photos of the fins and how they've fractured ?
If it's a regular "tendency" haven't your ATOs declared a moratorium on firing them ?
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Ok.
Thought that Denel ammunition would have been ok, used to be.
So all the rds retain their fins now ?
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Add in a 15km patrol and carrying the weight means the rounds are off target so don’t count.
I know, I got so tired that most often I'd lay down to fire it.

Then the rds weren't off tgt.
 
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What happened was the old Brandts were replaced and the DF needed a mortar in a hurry and the Vektor 60mm was bought, in a bit of a hurry and soon, shoots took place and someone took a photo, purely by chance, of a tail unit seperating off a bomb in one of the early shoots. A sequence of these failures occurred and the bombs were taken out of service at once, so new stuff was bought, after the obligatory running-around-like-headless-chickens and the problem went away, but, coincidentally, someone was injured by a bomb in the same time frame so the new mortar got a bad name in a short time. These days, it's all squared away, but at the time when the DF was doing more international duties, losing faith in a new weapon didnt help.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
What happened was the old Brandts were replaced and the DF needed a mortar in a hurry and the Vektor 60mm was bought, in a bit of a hurry and soon, shoots took place and someone took a photo, purely by chance, of a tail unit seperating off a bomb in one of the early shoots. A sequence of these failures occurred and the bombs were taken out of service at once, so new stuff was bought, after the obligatory running-around-like-headless-chickens and the problem went away, but, coincidentally, someone was injured by a bomb in the same time frame so the new mortar got a bad name in a short time. These days, it's all squared away, but at the time when the DF was doing more international duties, losing faith in a new weapon didnt help.
Cheers for the gen.
I thought this was another series of incidents until Irlsgt mentioned it was fourteen years ago.

By the way the Vektor isn't the same wpn as the Patmor if there was any confusion there.
 
Cheers for the gen.
I thought this was another series of incidents until Irlsgt mentioned it was fourteen years ago.

By the way the Vektor isn't the same wpn as the Patmor if there was any confusion there.
As far as I know it is the same:
In Irish service as issued it came with:
Conventional baseplate
Commando baseplate
Barrel
Bipods
Conventional sights
Commando sights & barrel grip
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
As far as I know it is the same:
In Irish service as issued it came with:
Conventional baseplate
Commando baseplate
Barrel
Bipods
Conventional sights
Commando sights & barrel grip
So do you have the M1 60mm mortar "Vektor" or the M4 Patmor ?
Quick way of finding out, what's it weigh ready to fire ?

Thr M4 had a facelift a couple of years back to become the DM42 M4 Mk2, lobbing out to 2k line of sight, with the DM43 M4 Mk3 conversion kit taking the range out to 4 km.

There's also the 60mm LRM which is used in place of the M3 81mm in a number of places as it's lighter and outranges the larger cal.
 
Cheers for the gen.
I thought this was another series of incidents until Irlsgt mentioned it was fourteen years ago.

By the way the Vektor isn't the same wpn as the Patmor if there was any confusion there.
That depends on your view of target. A GPMG has a beaten zone. A sharpshooter doesn’t. If we accept the definition of suppression being 1rd in 1m every 5 seconds then you might find your gpmg does not meet it.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
So do you have the M1 60mm mortar "Vektor" or the M4 Patmor ?
Quick way of finding out, what's it weigh ready to fire ?

Thr M4 had a facelift a couple of years back to become the DM42 M4 Mk2, lobbing out to 2k line of sight, with the DM43 M4 Mk3 conversion kit taking the range out to 4 km.

There's also the 60mm LRM which is used in place of the M3 81mm in a number of places as it's lighter and outranges the larger cal.
Irish defence force mortars - Google Search
 
Me and the other guy then basically went through 90 rounds each in a few minutes, to see the barrel of a LSW start glowing white is not a good sign
An effect that was reported on waaay back in the 20th century, when the weapon was not yet in service, and Para Reg troops used it as you describe, to the point where the cheek pieces were too hot to permit use of the sights.

And the Brigadier in your dit was (and likely remains) an uninformed bellend, as is anyone who thinks weight of fire trumps accuracy. The only people who are impressed by it are those delivering it. Experienced troops at the receiving end much less so. Might even be encouraged by this indicator that the troops firing at them are somewhere on a scale between untrained and inexperienced.
 
That depends on your view of target. A GPMG has a beaten zone. A sharpshooter doesn’t. If we accept the definition of suppression being 1rd in 1m every 5 seconds then you might find your gpmg does not meet it.
1 round within a 1m sq centred on the target with a 3-5 round burst ? I would get every round of a burst in that area. Piece of piss. IF you bother to train your GPMG gunners properly and that includes decent range time.
 
Not that it was a brilliant fix, the local armourers fix was to araldite on the mag release catch guard on weapons in service
As I recall it, gluing on a shroud was the universal, approved 'solution', not just a local fix, although I don't recall Araldite being the approved fixative.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
As I recall it, gluing on a shroud was the universal, approved 'solution', not just a local fix, although I don't recall Araldite being the approved fixative.
Agreed, that came across badly but in my defence it was our local armourers fixing it rather than them being sent back, also when they started to fall off the gun plumbers admitted that the glue was a cheap MoD version of araldite (probably a two pack with only one component). Whatever they used it was as much use as knickers on a naafi tart!
 

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