:: Loyal Toast to HM the Queen - RGJ - Question ::

Quick question please. Have been on Google but could not get an exact answer. I am attending/organising a private black tie festive board next Friday night. All of us will be in civvies. When it is time to toast the Queen are ex RGJ members still entitled to sit down or is it only at Mess nights. Also is it the RGJ or the Light Infantry that are entitled to sit for a a loyal toast. Don't want to start a turf war or anything just a simple answer please. The 2 ex RGJ folk are away on holiday and I won't see them until the Installation next week.

Any pointers would be appreciated. I am a stickler for protocol and Mess nights and private Black Tie being absolutely correct and ensuring tradition is maintained.


I am ex 1LI and attending a civilian function in LI tie, everyone else was in penguin order I sat still for the loyal toast. no one complained, in fact one or two commended me for upholding the tradition. I had started to rise but covered my tracks with a "Oh the Queen! Sorry I thought it was someone I should stand up for!"
If it is an RGJ tradition as well then you mus'nt stand on principle. It should get the penguins chattering!
try the MOD site for the RGJ and check out traditions.
At the last Mess function I attended we did not toast HM the Queen; the reason given is that our loyalty to the Crown has never been questioned.
The Light Infantry have the distinction of not drinking the Loyal Toast (from the 32nd and 85th LI).

ISTR The RGJ drink the normal Loyal Toast (at least they did in the RRV mess).

It's the PWRR that drink the toast seated (due to service as Marines).

If the RGJ have stopped saying the Loyal Toast, that may suggest that The Rifles will inherit this quirk from the LI.
My old regiment, 1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards, do not stand for the Loyal Toast or National Anthem at mess dinners. Having said that, when I was a guest at another mess I adopted the attitude that one should 'go' with the members of that mess, and so, I stood. I thought that it was appropriate.


Loyal Toast

The loyal toast is not drunk in Regimental messes in The Light Infantry. The Privilege was earned by the 32nd (Cornwall) Regiment as an honour for defending Lucknow during the Indian Mutiny (1857-58). As a result of their actions at Lucknow, Queen Victoria ordered that they are titled and dress as a Light Infantry Regiment and were later to become the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry
It was also conferred on the 85th (King's Light Infantry), later the 2nd Battalion KSLI, by George IV after officers of the Regiment had dealt with rioters who insulted him in a theatre in Brighton. The custom in the DLI originated during their campaign in the West Indies against the Caribs (when they were awarded the designation 'Faithful') since when it has not been considered necessary to demonstrate their loyalty by drinking the toast.

So I cocked up but I'm not the chap to miss out on a drink now!
Historically the RGJ do not toast the Queen only "the Regiment". Can't remember the exact history of this but it was certainly along the lines of "The loyalty of the Regiment cannot be questioned"
Having said that, I have been to some functions where the loyal toast has been done. This makes me wonder if it is an old tradition which some are now choosing to ignore?


Funnily enough the RGJ website lacks a section on traditions such as the LI website and the same is true for the Rifles!
If the RGJ didn't stand for the loyal toast but the Gloucesters (for example) did who is about to decide which tradition will b ecarried forward to the rifles? One possible solution will be for those battalions that originate from "sitters" sit and those that originate from "standers" stand. After all the tradition is a simportant to one man as it is to the next.
IMHO, The Dragoon is right and Ugly you are wrong.

If you are a guest, you go with the traditions of your hosts. As you would expect them to follow your traditions if they were your guests.

So, 58 Pattern, I would say that if you organising an LI function, then LI traditions should prevail and all attending should follow them in deference to their hosts.

Unless someone has sorted out what traditions The Rifles are to follow...


I suppose that applies if you are in a Naval mess where they do the toast but dont stand. The title Faithfull was granted by the Queen for sevices rendered and as an ex Light Infantryman I still wont take the toast. I wouldnt expect a foreign national to toast my Queen so neither do I. I would however expect a visitor to carry out his traditions so in a mixed mess the LI can ignore the toast quite rightfully and all the others can stand up toast sat down or do whatever they fancy. After all I would never do Heavy drill or be expected to on a course. The Lt Div always fall in on their own. Traditions are won or hard earned and I for one will keep as many alive despite my regiment being stolen by the black maffia!
I go with The Dragoon, being an ex QDG. Attending different messes during my time, mess etiquitte was to "Do as the Romans do". visited many great messes during my time 16/5L. 20 Heavy. JLR RAC, some great memories and some great hospitality - just to name a few. Have to say the worst one I ever went in was RCT Leconfield - Mess Hospitality was never practiced/heard off. Tossers!
On a mess function one day, dining in the new RSM. The band played through all the attached units Regimental / Corps marches - (ie) Physical Training Corps etc etc. It was funny to see how many didn't know their own units music and who didn't stand up - EXTRA'S all round.

Brew_Time said:
On a mess function one day, dining in the new RSM. The band played through all the attached units Regimental / Corps marches - (ie) Physical Training Corps etc etc. It was funny to see how many didn't know their own units music and who didn't stand up - EXTRA'S all round.

B Time
We used to make a few beers out of tipping the wink to mess members when thier Regimental march was about to be played.
ISTR that in the RGJ we used to toast either "The Regiment" or, if her Majesty was present (having overstayed after Happy Hour presumably) "The Colonel-in-Chief".

We didn't "do" the Loyal Toast.

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