Lowest GDP national debt?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Robbeaus, Jan 1, 2013.

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  1. I found this on the web recently (no, no linky if I can do it so can you)

    Given Osbournes paranoia and fixation over our alledged problems inherited from the last labour government, for which in the name of he has decimated, the NHS, Education, Defence, and the Welfair.

    Of these 6 G8 countries who has the lowest national debt as a % of GDP?
    Japan
    Germany
    USA
    Italy
    France
    United Kingdom

    And at the end of this Parlimentary time, which of the six will have the lowest debt?

    Now remember that the vast majority of Arrsers have posted, explaining that everything he has done is all the fault of Labour? You know as boot boys for the far right.

    No clues needed, realy, and no need to go to the tinternet, if you don't want to believe me.

    Roll of drums

    The UK

    Proof?
    Try this

    George Osborne and the Tory debt lie - NAILED - YouTube

    Aren't you lot so pleased that I am here to stop you all making any more prats of yourself than you already do.
     
  2. Without even bothering to open your link, you are a ****.

    Why?

    You ignore the GBP trillion-odd public pension liabilities which have to be paid and the several hundred billion GBP PPP deals which Gordon kept off the balance sheet (an act which no private company would be allowed to do, either by its shareholders or by the taxman).

    How has he "decimated the NHS, Education, Defence, and the Welfair" (It's spelt 'welfare' BTW)? NHS spending is still stupidly high, as is education and "Welfair" was given an inflation busting rise last year (5.5% IIRC?) thanks to the useless twonks aka the Liberal Democrats, and even next year will increase by over 1%. Government spending has also increased every single year since the Coalition came into existance, and will continue to rise. So what "decimation" exactly?

    Now **** off and get a job in the private sector you ****.

    Edited to add: by your own logic, if 6 people jumped off a cliff at 0.5 second intervals to their certain death 500 metres below, the sixth person should be ok because he will be a few metres above the rest on the way down.

    Of the rest of the G8:

    Japan - makes lots of things that the world wants.
    Germany - makes lots of things that the world wants.
    Italy -****ed.
    France -****ed but trying to hide it.
    USA - on the way to being****ed.
    Canada - in rude health. Doesn't borrow lots of money.
    Russia - in rude health: easy when you are a defacto dictatorship with sham elections and massive natural resources. Only screwed if the price of oil drops below 70USD a barrel.
    UK -****ed and only just starting to try and get out of the shit.

    Of the "Real G8" largest global economies:

    China: nice dictatorship. 2nd largest economy only by dint of screwing its own people and raping its own country and most of the world for resource, paid for by fat US and European consumers.
    Brazil: unstable and a horrible country to live in if you are not part of the incredibly small ruling class and "middle" class. The vast majority lives on wages that a Mauritanian would complain about.
     
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  3. C&nts are useful, whereas Robbeaus clearly is not.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. udipur

    udipur LE Book Reviewer

    Considering what his avatar is, I thought it would be more of the Swallowz.
     
  5. Depends whether you use the CIA/Eurostat figures or the IMF ones. Either way we are at the wrong end of the debt/GDP scale and the Tories are a long way from addressing it. Less than 10% of the population in a recent poll realise that we are still borrowing (increasing our debt) LDs and Labour would both increase our borrowing still higher !List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yes, I know it is wiki, but is useful to have the figures all together. you are welcome to check their validity using the sources at the bottom.
     
  6. Germany and Japan are net creditors, so have huge assets to dilute (if needed) and to offset against their debt liability.

    Germany, France and Italy cannot simply print money.

    The US Dollar is the world's only genuine reserve currency.

    The UK's debt figures are heavily massaged. We are not protected by the Eurozone's EFSF. There is no wider community underwriting the pound.

    I think Osbourne is an idiot, has no idea what he is doing, and is failing to achieve the only real target he set for himself (debt consolidation). However, his diagnosis I fully agree with. We're in a world of shit and we don't have the boots for it.
     
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  7. I concur, but when you consider the alternative of Balls or Cable you see just how deep in the Merde we really are !
    Slashing the foreign aid budget and payment to the EU would reduce our deficit by around £20b PA, around 30% of the total without even touching the bloated Quango culture.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Eh, last I heard, with the Cons idea and the Labour implementation, adding all the debt together we came to nice Trillion. Not sure about your percentages.

    UK National Debt - how Britain owes over £1 trillion

    It's a truly frightening figure. Why is the world's sixth richest country so deeply in debt?

    Every year the UK runs a large budget deficit. The Government spends more money than it can tax, so we plug the gap by selling bonds to investors at home and abroad. These bonds - known as gilts - have to be repaid in full, with interest. Added together, our unpaid loans make up the UK's national debt.

    Right now, that debt is growing violently. The Government forecasts it will soar to an eye-watering £1.5 trillion by 2016. To put that in perspective, the UK went bust in 1976 running a budget deficit of 6% of GDP. In 2012 that deficit is going to top 8.9%.

    Historically, our debt burden was heavier after World War II. But like any loan, if the money isn't invested wisely we end up borrowing even more. When the Government runs up huge debts and produces nothing to show for it, we're the ones that shoulder the burden. This year that burden will grow by £138 billion.

    The state has been wasting our money for decades. Weak politicians have bribed voters with endless amounts of borrowed cash. As a result, in 2012 the interest on the national debt will cost £44.8 billion a year. That's more than we spend on defence, and not much less than the entire education budget.

    Future generations won't thank us for mortgaging their future. At best, national debt will be a millstone round our children's necks. But if lenders lose faith in Britain there could be profound consequences for our currency, our country and our lives.

    UK National Debt Clock - No-nonsense Guide to Britain's Debt Crisis
     
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  9. The deficit is the figure that we need to borrow each month/year, this contributes toward the National debt which is as you say is upwards of £1T. Our annual deficit is around £70b PA, that is why I said 20b savings PA would wipe around out around 30% of our deficit. Not sure where your £138b figure came from. I do however agree with your post, the national debt is a scandal and is putting a noose around the necks of our children and grand children. The true scandal however is how few people understand or for that matter have ever heard any of this !
     
  10. Most people while complaining about the national debt and the feckless dragging us down even further into debt completely miss the point about turning the economy around.

    I'm not a financial expert with my finger on the pulse of the economy and a background in intrinsic financial complexities but I am perfectly aware that to accumulate, you have got to speculate.

    Those unemployed who can't get work and the "scroungers" who make a career out of getting free state money are not going to go away you know!

    You can either invest in the economy revitalising industries and creating new industries or you can do nothing and keep paying out for nothing.

    Only jobs for those who don't have jobs is going to turn benefit claimers into tax payers. Then public spending will drop but without that investment in industry and commerce, nothing will change!
     
  11. Sorry about the formatting...

    In 2009-10 the Government spent £671.4 billion of our money, despite tax revenues of only £496.1 billion. That's the problem, right there. Under current spending plans, the national debt will top 79% of GDP by 2014. The last time we borrowed this much money the freedom of the entire world was at stake in World War Two. What on earth are we spending it on today? Here's the answer, in billions of pounds:
    [TABLE="width: 420, align: center"]
    [TR]
    [TH="bgcolor: #C7CFD5"](£ billions)[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #C7CFD5"]2009-10[/TH]
    [TH="bgcolor: #C7CFD5"]2010-11[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Benefits and Pensions[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]195.5[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]202.6[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Health[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]99.9[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]104[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Education[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]66.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]69.2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Debt interest[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]27.2[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]42.9[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Defence[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]38.7[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]36.7[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Local government[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]30.1[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]30.8[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Scotland[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]25.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]26.1[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Law and Order[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]19.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]19.6[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Wales[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]13.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]14[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Northern Ireland[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]9.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]9.9[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]EU contributions[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]5.6[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]7.9[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Transport[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]6.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]6.4[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]International aid[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]5.5[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]6.2[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Other departments[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]127.9[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]125.4[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Total government spending[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]671.4[/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]701.7[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    The public finances are dominated by the welfare state, which will cost the UK some£202.6 billion to maintain this year. The welfare budget includes pensions and tax credits, plus unemployment, sickness, housing, council tax, child support and other benefits. In 2010-11, interest payments on the national debt will be the fourth biggest line in the budget, reaching £42.9 billion.
    When in opposition, Gordon Brown used to call escalating social security and debt interest payments the costs of failure. In his own terms, we're now failing on a scale never seen before.
     
  12. My off shore opinion is that the State has got to big and is too unresponsive. We know Defence Procurement make mistakes; but it can not be changed. We know that shed loads of money goes into allowing Poles to have some truly fantastic houses - Poland; but we just can not slim down as to much is vested in the State and the employees of the State.

    Has anyone heard of anyone in Government speaking about 3D printing - advanced manufacturing techniques are being invested in by China and see the thread that I posted - we now have trains making the trip from Central China to Europe in 16 days - and that will come down.

    Simply, at this time of night, we have no effective leadership be it in Government or the departments of government.

    Rant over
     
  13. Thank you Krom, not sure why I have a figure of £70b stuck in my head. I suppose it is similar to the various figures of people killed in Nazi concentration camps, we can all agree that without knowing the exact figures we know it is far too high !
    There is of course a difference between deficit and structural deficit. Structural deficit is of course the amount we are overspending when the economy is performing well. I think we all must agree that we need drastic cuts in overspending but that we also need to reduce taxation in order to stimulate the economy. The balancing of the these figures is of course politics. I know the Tories have not got this right, neither do the LD/Lab have any solutions.
     
  14. You can complain about the size of the public sector but much of that sector is now run by the private sector. Rubbish still has to be collected, the streets still cleaned and unless we concrete over everything, the grass still has to be cut. All those functions and much more are done through contracting to the private sector and where it's done in house, that's because they have proven themselves a cheaper option through the tendering process.

    It's still popular among many on here to talk about diversity jobs and diversity monitoring but I don't think any of that has any real impact on local government budgets because while it may exist in some places, the expenditure for it will be equal to a grain of sand in relation to the rest of the expenditure.

    The real problem is the huge amount of people who are not doing any productive work which can be translated into profit for their employer. There are two strings to that. Firstly those unemployed who became workers would be taxpayers and contributing to the exchequers coffers and not claimant's taking money from the exchequer.

    The second point is that the companies that they produced those goods for would also be contributing to the exchequer through corporation tax on it's profits and re-investing a portion of those profits back into it's activities for development and expansion.

    Quite simply though, since the abolishment of exchange controls, we have seen all the money that should have been used for investment in industry in Britain sent abroad for investment in other places where goods have been produced and then shipped back to Britain. Now, because all the money has gone abroad, we are seeing the huge effects of that in Britain.

    Getting back to all those on free money! We can of course just cut and slash unemployment benefit and social benefits without bothering about trying to invest in jobs and commerce. The problem is though, how will many of those who rely on those benefits respond to have that money taken away.

    People still need to eat and even on benefits, they still need some Luxuries, the odd pint, some baccy and a bit of chocolate and of course, is it right that children should go hungry or walk around in rags and with ill fitting or even no footwear? If it starts to get like that, just watch the crime figures mushroom much more than they are doing so now, i.e. muggings and burglaries and so on.

    The way forward is that we need a huge change in economic policy and direction by all the mainstream political parties. It needs to look at existing industries and new industries. We need to reconsider how we do things and it needs to be done quite urgently. To do so, it needs to utilise the skills and resources of the public sector and the private sector and in doing so, the key goal is to revitalise investment in a revitalised private sector.

    So yeah. If we don't sort this out, our children and our grandchildren will be paying for it! That is of course if any of them have any jobs!