Louise Ellman: MP quits Labour over anti-Semitism concerns

Oddly enough, they were pro Israel in the beginning.
Imho What changed was that the majority of Arab states were socialist/left wing in nature and backed by Russia, and the Israelis by the US. So support waned as a result.
That was the impression that I'd formed. The left-wing students whilst I was at Uni (back in the mid-70s and about the time our longer standing MPs started off in the business) were anti-Israel precisely because that was the party line, and it was the party line because that's what their Socialist brothers-in-arms from Moscow said it was. That line wasn't just anti-Israel, it was anti-NATO (but not anti-WP), anti-US, anti-Tory, anti-Shah, anti-capitalist, etc. In fairness, and to add a sense of balance, it wasn't against everything; it was pro-IRA.

Individually, most of them were probably not anti-semitic, but institutionally they were and I can't help but feel that Israel is still the ideological whipping-boy for Labour because the current leadership was so steeped in it back in the day that it is now baked into the party's policy DNA.

And no, I'm not just being a reactionary old git. I used to read some of their newspapers and had a few mates who were that were inclined. I enjoyed a quiet moment of Schadenfreude when most of the CND types ended up working for defence companies.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
I couldn't disagree more.

And I'm pretty sure ive not accused you of anything, falsely or otherwise.

What mystifies me is the staggering level of group think amongst anti Labour people that anything negative must be true.

On this thread, the Labour party has been compared to Hitler's regime, and it's been stated that i will be thrown out of Labour for not being antisemitic.

I'm sure there are genuinely antisemitic people in Labour. Never seen any evidence personally but it's foolish to pretend a large organisation hasn't got various despicable people in it.

As an organisation Labour isn't antisemitic.


Similar discussions some years ago post Stephen Lawrence about whether the police were an organisation with racists or a racist organisation.

Sadly, then as now, a lot of people couldn't see a difference, either throgh stupidity or an agenda.
The Labour Party as an organisation WASN'T overtly anti-Semitic, indeed British Jews (already over-represented in UK politics for a good long while) were even more over-represented on the Labour benches of the commons. However there always was a wing that was anti-Semitic (same as any of the big parties I expect) and alas they seem to be the wing in the ascendance at the moment. The majority of the rank and file may well abhor anti-Semitism, but if key members of the leadership, NEC discipline and complaints are harbouring anti-Semitic opinions and sympathies the party as a whole will be dragged in that direction.

That is personally where I see the Labour Party at the moment. They have been taken over by the lunatics from the asylum and a great many undesirables have managed to infiltrate a party that frequently had nothing but the best of intentions- application of those intentions may have been incompetent but that's parr for the course. Alas the biggest problem with Labour is the same problem that prevents otherwise decent members recognising the very real problem. This is the delusion that has become rampant that as Labour you are automatically virtuous, all your fellow travellers are thus automatically virtuous, and any opposition are automatically toffs/evil/racist/tory scum (delete as applicable).
 
Louise Ellman leaving now "is just a symptom of splits, not antisemitism", is like saying Dachau was just a labour camp, not a concentration camp.
Utterly absurd post.
I've read a few of the things that Louise Ellman and others have written and I'm afraid I don't seem as much absurdity in @loofkar's statement as you do.

Under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, antisemitism has become mainstream in the Labour party. Jewish members have been bullied, abused and driven out. Antisemites have felt comfortable and vile conspiracy theories have been propagated. A party that permits anti-Jewish racism to flourish cannot be called anti-racist.
Forgive me if I think that her position as a long-standing MP affords her more insight into the actual state of affairs than you possess and that this is not just symptomatic of some other philosophical debate.
 
The real Labour party isn't anti-semitic , the current incarnation of the labour party is anything but labour.
 
The real Labour party isn't anti-semitic , but the current labour party is. I am working class, large family, father on low wages, shit comprehensive, army at 16, voted Thatcher in 1979 at 19 years old and have never voted for the patronising bastards of the left ever, they never saw me as anything other than cannon fodder in their class war anyway. My old man bought his council house and was proud of ownership and even more proud that he could leave something to his kids. He never was able to bring himself to vote tory (which I felt was a bit harsh on St Margaret) but he happily abandoned labour to vote UKIP.
 
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Indeed, there are plenty examples already out there of the MSM "largely" ignoring:
  • Louise Ellman quits Labour party with fierce attack on Corbyn
  • Jewish Labour MP Louise Ellman quits party warning Corbyn PM 'would embolden racists' and encourage antisemitism
  • Louise Ellman quits as Labour MP saying Jeremy Corbyn ‘is not fit to serve’
  • Labour MP Louise Ellman quits party with parting shot at Jeremy Corbyn
  • Labour MP quits party after 55 years because of 'risk of Corbyn becoming PM'
  • Lots of Labour MPs agree with Louise Ellman. So why are they staying?
  • MP Louise Ellman quits Labour after 55 years, because Corbyn is 'not fit to serve as our Prime Minister'
  • Louise Ellman quits Labour over Corbyn's handling of anti-Semitism
They're ignoring it so well you quoted the story from the most "M" of "MSM", the BBC.
Right....
How much airtime on BBC TV/Radio, ITV, Sky, C4 News? They're the MSM, not dead tree & websites

I heard nothing on R4/World Service News; <1min on C4 News - slipped into an interview on Brexit with Lab MP
 
Thought not, like your fellow traveller, you make up things then fail to back them up. Not an unexpected turn of events at all.

Neatly done; accuse someone of lying when they aren't, and claim the high ground.

No wonder i hold you in contempt.

Why are you a Mod?
 
Neatly done; accuse someone of lying when they aren't, and claim the high ground.
Exactly what you do when you accuse fellow members of things but refuse to back up your assertions. You need to get your shit in one sock brother.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Neatly done; accuse someone of lying when they aren't, and claim the high ground.

No wonder i hold you in contempt.

Why are you a Mod?
So still no answer, just your usual whining, you made the claim back it up. All you have to cite some examples, the fact you think that is calling you a liar does however speak volumes.
 
Exactly what you do when you accuse fellow members of things but refuse to back up your assertions. You need to get your shit in one sock brother.
Not done that.

Apart from the occasional term of abuse.

For clarity, and purely as an example, saying "I think Helm is an unpleasant person" is an opnion.

Saying "Helm is a pædophile" is something that would demand evidence, and i don't have any so it would be imprudent to make such a claim.

Helm said he wanted evidence of things that are in the thread. Now you're jumping on his trollwagon.
 
Not done that.

Apart from the occasional term of abuse.

For clarity, and purely as an example, saying "I think Helm is an unpleasant person" is an opnion.

Saying "Helm is a pædophile" is something that would demand evidence, and i don't have any so it would be imprudent to make such a claim.

Helm said he wanted evidence of things that are in the thread. Now you're jumping on his trollwagon.
No, I called you out following this post:
@loofkar is a major source on this site of that fake news. Read back through his posts and you will that fact. I’ve had similar responses from him on some of my recent posting on here. It’s seems to me from the intensity of his attention to this matter that he has more than a passing interest in getting his message, or in my view his lies, onto our screens!

I wonder why that would be?
You have point blank refused to back up your assertion that loofkar posts fake news.
I wonder why that would be?
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
No, I called you out following this post:

You have point blank refused to back up your assertion that loofkar posts fake news.
You have the wrong apologist there, specop is the one claiming that, "On this thread, the Labour party has been compared to Hitler's regime, and it's been stated that i will be thrown out of Labour for not being antisemitic."
But can't actually point out where that's been said.
 
You have the wrong apologist there, specop is the one claiming that, "On this thread, the Labour party has been compared to Hitler's regime, and it's been stated that i will be thrown out of Labour for not being antisemitic."
But can't actually point out where that's been said.
Oh I seen that post and marked it up as a funny because I think it was intended to be humorous, not as a statement of fact, unless you're a bit hard of thinking ;-)
 
Quite disturbing really, but it's the cult of Corbyn that allows antisemitism to grow within the Labour Party and spread like a cnacer

 

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