Lord Tebbit urges referendum on Lisbon Treaty

#1
Something of a forlorn hope, but we can dream:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6834477.ece

Lord Tebbit called on David Cameron yesterday to pledge a referendum on the new EU reform treaty even if it has already been introduced.

The Tory leader is facing increasing pressure to spell out what he will do if, as expected, the Irish vote to ratify the Lisbon treaty just three days before the start of the Conservatives’ annual conference.

A Yes vote next month makes it likely that the treaty will be in force by the general election. Unless Mr Cameron provides activists with a “satisfactory assurance” that he would hold a referendum regardless, he risks losing ground to UKIP, Lord Tebbit said.

The former party chairman said that Mr Cameron should include a commitment to a retrospective referendum in the Conservatives’ next manifesto.

“My understanding is that they’ve reneged on that commitment and if the Irish vote Yes and the treaty is ratified throughout the community Mr Cameron’s only commitment is that he will not let the matter rest there. I don’t know what that means.”

The peer, who has come close to expulsion in recent months for his outspoken remarks on Europe, called on Mr Cameron to demand wholesale changes in the EU.

“Mr Cameron must not forget that things which are set out in the election manifesto, if he wins the election, would not be obstructed in the House of Lords. If he comes up with something after the election which was not in the election manifesto, it is quite possible that the House of Lords might turn it down. That is convention.”

Mr Cameron’s senior colleagues concede that the Irish vote poses a “headache” for him before the party’s annual conference in Manchester. He is being urged by some to tackle the issue head-on.

However, a senior Conservative said that Mr Cameron regarded Afghanistan as his most important foreign policy priority and wished to avoid a long-running battle with Brussels.
 
#2
Lord Tebbit is absolutely right.
Is prefectly simple, if Cameron will not commit to a referendum (and mean it, unlike Brown) I will not vote for him next year. I suspect there are many people who feel the same way, look how many vote UKIP......
 
#3
jagman said:
Lord Tebbit is absolutely right.
Is prefectly simple, if Cameron will not commit to a referendum (and mean it, unlike Brown) I will not vote for him next year. I suspect there are many people who feel the same way, look how many vote UKIP......
Frankly JM, I agree. There is a tendancy to want to vote for the winning party (Conservatives next year), but UKIP is the only moderately sensible party that addresses the issue
 
#4
This could split the Conservative Party wide open.
I am against an entry without the UK Population voting on it.
This matter is what Mengler has been waiting for.
Just watch the Labour Party Stir it up.
I do wonder why Tebbit has decided to open this old wound.
john
 
#5
jonwilly said:
This could split the Conservative Party wide open.
I am against an entry without the UK Population voting on it.
This matter is what Mengler has been waiting for.
Just watch the Labour Party Stir it up.
I do wonder why Tebbit has decided to open this old wound.
john
Queue hollow laughter - maybe he has principles. I know, I know.

I don't think it will help Labour though - they are so despised that even Mengeler's tactics won't save them
 
#8
The Lisbon treaty is not really a question that can be answered by yes and no.
A its almost unreadable unless you love lawyerspeak.
So we are going to have a referendum over something most people won't have read or understand.
One group is hoping people will vote no because they hate everything the EU stands for.
The other group is hoping people will vote for it to keep the EU rolling along.
I like the Idea of the EU not sure I am that keen on this version of it to be honest :(
 
#9
jonwilly said:
This could split the Conservative Party wide open.
I am against an entry without the UK Population voting on it.
This matter is what Mengler has been waiting for.
Just watch the Labour Party Stir it up.
I do wonder why Tebbit has decided to open this old wound.
john
It isn't a wound, it is actually a vote winner. If Boy Dave made a firm commitment to holding the referendum which was denied by Cyclops, then where is the issue?

The Europhiles are the ones causing any split by denying our people their democratic right to choose who make the laws in our country.

The Lisbon question lies at the very heart of our democracy.

Rumour has it however, that the "NO" campaign in Ireland is gaining serious momentum. Let us hope that the Irish have the sense to reject the surrender of their sovereignty.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#10
Oyibo said:
jagman said:
Lord Tebbit is absolutely right.
Is prefectly simple, if Cameron will not commit to a referendum (and mean it, unlike Brown) I will not vote for him next year. I suspect there are many people who feel the same way, look how many vote UKIP......
Frankly JM, I agree. There is a tendancy to want to vote for the winning party (Conservatives next year), but UKIP is the only moderately sensible party that addresses the issue
Maybe because that is the only issue they are capable of addressing.

They are in self destruct mode right now anyway - Farage has resigned as leader (rather than as an MEP because he needs that to pay his family and cronies wages), to stand against Bercow - which is good, but he will probably lose and give more weight to Bercow.
The Argentinian treasurer who now only lives mostly in Barcelona (has she got a UK phone number yet?), has also quit after an arguement with Farage's number 2.

UKIP - a wasted vote doing Labour a favour......
 
#12
bobthedog said:
Alsacien,

"UKIP - a wasted vote doing Labour a favour"

How true!
All the more reason for cameron to heed Tebbits advice and bite the bullet.

No potential Tory voter will change their intention to vote if he gives a clear undertaking to hold the promised referendum.

If he fails to give such an undertaking then the vote WILL be split.

So in other words no promised referendum means doing labour a favour,
 
#13
I agree that there should be a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty as it fundamentally affects the way we will live in the future. The problem will be how they phrase the question. If they decided that a non vote was a pro vote then we would probably gain very little, given the usual voter apathy in this country.
One thing is for certain, given the leadership of both the major parties, there is no-one with enough backbone to stand up to Europe, Maggie-style, and demand/negotiate a better deal for the UK. France is still massively subsidised by the EU and we still miss out due to our small farming community. I'm not for pulling out of Europe per se but I do feel that the payments and rebates need to be properly addressed and France must realise that the EU is not their exclusive club.
 
#14
I'm not absolutely certain that Gordon wants the Lisbon Treaty to go through.

If he were such a Europhile he could have refrained from blocking entry into the Euro. But he's such a complex character that I can't trust him to do what he wants to do nowadays.

Until the UK ratification is formally delivered to wherever (it currently sits in the local Embassy AFAIK), and all other countries do the same (others also have theirs lodged but not delivered) there is no great point in starting the next argument.

Gordon and Mandy plus the rest of the Euro-criminals (many on significant Euro-pensions) would just kick up a storm and get all the publicity.

I think Cameron & Hague are doing the right thing - holding true to their word on the current state of affairs. I'm sure they have plans, and now they've a bloc within the Euro-Parliament it won't just be a domestic UK issue.

Watch this space !. Good on Normo Tebbs for keeping the issue alive, but he ought to highlight the duplicity of the other parties a little more.
 
#15
Ha Ha - what a numpty:

Lisburn - small town with 3 pubs on the outskirts of Belfast - an unlikely venue for European Heads of State to sign an international agreement.

Lisbon - capital city of Portugal - a European State within the EU.
 
#16
jagman said:
Lord Tebbit is absolutely right.
Is prefectly simple, if Cameron will not commit to a referendum (and mean it, unlike Brown) I will not vote for him next year. I suspect there are many people who feel the same way, look how many vote UKIP......
Mind you one would have thought that a polititian with the experience and skill of Lord Tebbit would have realised that it was exactly this sort of internal battle that effectively destroyed the Tory party as a party of government back in the 90s.

Does the good lord really want to let Madleson back in through the back door?
 
#18
nark said:
Ha Ha - what a numpty:

Lisburn - small CITY (city status awarded in 2002) with 3 pubs on the outskirts of Belfast - an unlikely venue for European Heads of State to sign an international agreement though it does have the Bow Street Mall.

Lisbon - capital city of Portugal - a European State within the EU.
I'll just correct that for you.
 
#20
maxi_77 said:
Mind you one would have thought that a polititian with the experience and skill of Lord Tebbit would have realised that it was exactly this sort of internal battle that effectively destroyed the Tory party as a party of government back in the 90s.

Does the good lord really want to let Madleson back in through the back door?
I am sure he does recognise how divisive an issue this is,after all he was there before when the European question reared its ugly head last time.It has not gone away and I get the impression that Tebbit knows that if the matter is not put to bed by referendum it will come back to haunt the tories yet again (when in power).

It is also worth keeping in mind that he is very much singing from the same song sheet as the grass roots tory support and that the new influx of backbenchers in the tory wings will be predominantly Eurosceptic.

Tebbit knows that if CMD does the right thing it will unite the party and put the tories on the morally correct side of the arguement.

I would agree with other posters though that the issue needs sensivive handling to safegaurd our trading relationship with Europe (not a herculean task as this area is overseen by the WTO).This is where Cameron needs to earn his pay packet.

Fundamentally though,I am of an age where I have never been given a say on the EU and any party that does not offer one will not be getting my vote.(The traitorous Illiberal Democrats can ram their manifesto pledge).
 

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