Long Shields

MrBane

LE
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Reviews Editor
I've seen the public order training pop up in various threads and programs about Army training. I stole this one from another part of the site:


View attachment 372653

I was wondering what the score is with the long shields being quite different from the police ones. They appear to be smaller, appear to interlock and are more rigid.

Job ones haven't changed in literally decades, they're generally more flexible and taller.

This is a picture from Lewisham in 1977, for Level 2 they're basically the same:
View attachment 372667

Perhaps someone who's been on both sides of the....fence, can comment?

Are the tactics significantly different (when not incorporating firearms)? Just idle interest.
As mentioned already, the shields in the first picture are more or less the standard issue across most Police forces, including Police Scotland.

Rarely get used to be honest, which is a good thing.

Although it's mainly because we can't find the ******* things.

I've also seen one fresh out the wrapper split in half with a baseball bat. That caused concern!
 

NemoIII

War Hero
It is awkward, means you have to open the shield to strike and takes the stable control of the shield away.

When in shield wall it's a 2 hand job, however if you weren't armed with a baton, you would have to remain in a shield wall?

When I was doing riot training before deploying on tour, we were standing in open order and the rioters advanced onto the front team that I was in. The middle man was attacked and pushed back, I was fighting to my front and never realise he had moved 2m back. My left hand side was exposed and just as I dropped my shield to deliver a strike, my shield was kicked, broke 4 ribs and still plagues me to this day 2 years later.
 
I don't know, having fitted mine, I didn't feel confident about facing a brick to the grid but I was just sat behind my desk fúcking about with it.
I think we should test it. Purely for your confidence of course.

I think throwing about 50 bricks at your fizog should form a conclusive test, although we will need something to compare it to so 50 without the lid and guard as well.

When would you like to start?
 

Just for giggles to watch on a Saturday morning. This is an English PSU, deployed to NI 2013 to support PSNI, this is on 12 July. It is on the divide between The Short Strand and The Upper??? Newtownards Road. I was part of the second vehicle.

Beyond the wall is a RC Church, we were told that if Loyalists rioters got in there, it would cause mayhem.

I was personally very surprised by how restrained PSNI tactics were. Very much hold ground and separate as opposed to offensive tactics.

Water Cannons are great but the pressure was kept very low.
 

spaz

LE
I think we should test it. Purely for your confidence of course.

I think throwing about 50 bricks at your fizog should form a conclusive test, although we will need something to compare it to so 50 without the lid and guard as well.

When would you like to start?
That sounds great Dongerr, I've since dekitted though so no need.
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor

Just for giggles to watch on a Saturday morning. This is an English PSU, deployed to NI 2013 to support PSNI, this is on 12 July. It is on the divide between The Short Strand and The Upper??? Newtownards Road. I was part of the second vehicle.

Beyond the wall is a RC Church, we were told that if Loyalists rioters got in there, it would cause mayhem.

I was personally very surprised by how restrained PSNI tactics were. Very much hold ground and separate as opposed to offensive tactics.

Water Cannons are great but the pressure was kept very low.
What a bunch of inbreds.
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
A very long day, as darkness came, the petrol bombs came sailing over.
I'm very impressed with the restraint showed. There were plenty of opportunities to grab a wrist and pull someone behind the shield line for a team to arrest.
 
I think we should test it. Purely for your confidence of course.

I think throwing about 50 bricks at your fizog should form a conclusive test, although we will need something to compare it to so 50 without the lid and guard as well.

When would you like to start?
My first thought was would it hinder me when chainsawing my log pile?
 

2ndpreimage

Old-Salt
I never did Level 2 (for which I am grateful) but I have been massively out numbered Level 3 at Chelsea and I've dealt with (if I've remembered my gradings correctly) Cat C footy overspill, i.e. when they've been dispersed and the main body of the PO boys and girls have been dismissed but the hairiness continues into the night

The speed at which things can change always made me reticent when people said you could go back and get the kit, it's nearby if you need it but we don't want to wind people up. Honestly if it's going that badly wrong, there's little opportunity to go back and get the kit. I also remember the TSG came to our aid once and for all the jokes, when they get out and do their thing, man are you glad to see them.

Short shields were incredibly useful in some circumstances to the extent I would always chuck one into the back of a vehicle if one was kicking around in the yard but I never used a long shield in anger.

Looking at the videos from NI you can only imagine that sort of calmness comes from experience.

I'm so glad this isn't my problem any more :)
 
I'm very impressed with the restraint showed. There were plenty of opportunities to grab a wrist and pull someone behind the shield line for a team to arrest.
We were gagging to do so after hours of abuse. We were ordered not to come out from the line of the armoured LRs. At one stage, you can see them chucking lumps of heavy masonry between the first and second vehicles, which was where I was stood.

As I said, The PSNI mentality on that deployment was very much hold ground and keep groups separated, not advance and arrest.
 
We were gagging to do so after hours of abuse. We were ordered not to come out from the line of the armoured LRs. At one stage, you can see them chucking lumps of heavy masonry between the first and second vehicles, which was where I was stood.

As I said, The PSNI mentality on that deployment was very much hold ground and keep groups separated, not advance and arrest.
As always with NI you are doing PO with one eye on the politics as well as the situation on the ground.

If that is the summer I think it is then that community had been screwed over repeatedly during PO situations arising from the flag protests and were generally not very happy with the Police. My guess would be that Silver was frantically negotiating with community reps to try and stop it escalating and didn't want anything the crowd would see as an escalation from the Police side.

There are a load of local sensitivities to certain tactics that are sometimes hard to get your head round. A couple of hundred metres from where you were that day a friend of mine told a senior UVF punter that if they didn't get a grip of some kids throwing things over the peace line he would fire plastic. The UVF punter told him if he fired plastic they would be firing back with lead in less than 15 minutes.

The Ardoyne is even weirder, there is an invisible line behind the shops that if you cross it your operation becomes 'an attack on the community'. As one senior cop I know put it, the difference between three hours of rioting in the Ardoyne and three days of rioting is fifty metres.
 
As always with NI you are doing PO with one eye on the politics as well as the situation on the ground.

If that is the summer I think it is then that community had been screwed over repeatedly during PO situations arising from the flag protests and were generally not very happy with the Police. My guess would be that Silver was frantically negotiating with community reps to try and stop it escalating and didn't want anything the crowd would see as an escalation from the Police side.

There are a load of local sensitivities to certain tactics that are sometimes hard to get your head round. A couple of hundred metres from where you were that day a friend of mine told a senior UVF punter that if they didn't get a grip of some kids throwing things over the peace line he would fire plastic. The UVF punter told him if he fired plastic they would be firing back with lead in less than 15 minutes.

The Ardoyne is even weirder, there is an invisible line behind the shops that if you cross it your operation becomes 'an attack on the community'. As one senior cop I know put it, the difference between three hours of rioting in the Ardoyne and three days of rioting is fifty metres.
No doubt, I’m aware of sensitivities and realise that Commanders are walking a tightrope to keep a lid on things.
 
I've had to use one for a 'cell extraction'. The sharpish edge at the top of the shield is good for upper cutting scroates.
Few things are more satisfying than plastering a con against the back wall of his cell.
Sadly, that avenue of pleasure has now been closed.
 
Looking at footage of riots (like that video above in London), why is there no high viz element to the riot suit so that you can pick out your guys stuck in a tricky situation?

With regard to NI, outsider pissing in here but:
- those riots can go on for days & weeks so the PSNI probably have to play the long game - let them get tired

- also firearms
 
Hi Viz is the norm now on the Mainland. The only problem with it is that most Hi Viz materials melt so it's not the greatest in situations where you expecting to take petrol.
 

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