Long Shields

#1
I've seen the public order training pop up in various threads and programs about Army training. I stole this one from another part of the site:


1547822125118.png


I was wondering what the score is with the long shields being quite different from the police ones. They appear to be smaller, appear to interlock and are more rigid.

Job ones haven't changed in literally decades, they're generally more flexible and taller.

This is a picture from Lewisham in 1977, for Level 2 they're basically the same:
8216.jpg


Perhaps someone who's been on both sides of the....fence, can comment?

Are the tactics significantly different (when not incorporating firearms)? Just idle interest.
 
#2
I've seen the public order training pop up in various threads and programs about Army training. I stole this one from another part of the site:


View attachment 372653

I was wondering what the score is with the long shields being quite different from the police ones. They appear to be smaller, appear to interlock and are more rigid.

Job ones haven't changed in literally decades, they're generally more flexible and taller.

This is a picture from Lewisham in 1977, for Level 2 they're basically the same:
View attachment 372667

Perhaps someone who's been on both sides of the....fence, can comment?

Are the tactics significantly different (when not incorporating firearms)? Just idle interest.
The only cops who use the shields in your last picture are the Met, with their own tactics they specifically designed around them.

Everyone else in the UK uses the same Armadillo shield the soldiers in the first photo have. In police speak they normally refer to it as the 'Intermediate shield'.
 
#4
I've had to use one for a 'cell extraction'. The sharpish edge at the top of the shield is good for upper cutting scroates.
 
#6
The only cops who use the shields in your last picture are the Met, with their own tactics they specifically designed around them.

Everyone else in the UK uses the same Armadillo shield the soldiers in the first photo have. In police speak they normally refer to it as the 'Intermediate shield'.
That is both informative and unsurprising!
 
#7
I've seen the public order training pop up in various threads and programs about Army training. I stole this one from another part of the site:


View attachment 372653

I was wondering what the score is with the long shields being quite different from the police ones. They appear to be smaller, appear to interlock and are more rigid.

Job ones haven't changed in literally decades, they're generally more flexible and taller.

This is a picture from Lewisham in 1977, for Level 2 they're basically the same:
View attachment 372667

Perhaps someone who's been on both sides of the....fence, can comment?

Are the tactics significantly different (when not incorporating firearms)? Just idle interest.
I have used intermediate shields in Ulster, without leg armour or flame retardant clothing, because we had none, in the days when you lay down, uncomplaining, in order of rank, waiting for someone to throw a bucket of sand over you because we had no fire extinguishers either. Hot broken glass from petrol bombs goes through DMS and NI Patrol boots with no bother.
Forming an old style shield wall worked, with a Pig in the centre as intermediate shields are not proof against a car being driven into them.
Used long shields and short shields in the Met. The long shields interlock and you can have an overhead, however, bottles and bricks tend to bounce off the 'roof' and smack someone behind who has no shield.
Neither short shields or long shields are bullet proof, as was confirmed during the Broadwater Farm riot.
Long shields WILL shatter if incorrectly stored, ie, left out in the sunlight in a nicks back yard for months.
Also not proof against cars.

GREAT for taking out the opposition if held horizontally overhead and used to chop them in the face with the lower edge, but that is forbidden because it works.

Great for use as a card table when Level 2 Reserve at Notting Hill on Children's Day.

*Important safety notice* despite the instructors claims, when doing building entries, no matter how well you have formed the overhead 'roof', kitchen sinks, toilets, and washing machines, do not just bounce harmlessly off.
 
#8
I have used intermediate shields in Ulster, without leg armour or flame retardant clothing, because we had none, in the days when you lay down, uncomplaining, in order of rank, waiting for someone to throw a bucket of sand over you because we had no fire extinguishers either. Hot broken glass from petrol bombs goes through DMS and NI Patrol boots with no bother.
Forming an old style shield wall worked, with a Pig in the centre as intermediate shields are not proof against a car being driven into them.
Used long shields and short shields in the Met. The long shields interlock and you can have an overhead, however, bottles and bricks tend to bounce off the 'roof' and smack someone behind who has no shield.
Neither short shields or long shields are bullet proof, as was confirmed during the Broadwater Farm riot.
Long shields WILL shatter if incorrectly stored, ie, left out in the sunlight in a nicks back yard for months.
Also not proof against cars.

GREAT for taking out the opposition if held horizontally overhead and used to chop them in the face with the lower edge, but that is forbidden because it works.

Great for use as a card table when Level 2 Reserve at Notting Hill on Children's Day.

*Important safety notice* despite the instructors claims, when doing building entries, no matter how well you have formed the overhead 'roof', kitchen sinks, toilets, and washing machines, do not just bounce harmlessly off.
How fecking true.
 
#12
It's just the current issue Virtus helmet, with the gubbins fitted.
Has anyone taken a hard smack in the face with that on? I really don't fancy it compared to the stand off between perspex and face you get with a visor.
 
#13
Has anyone taken a hard smack in the face with that on? I really don't fancy it compared to the stand off between perspex and face you get with a visor.
I don't know, having fitted mine, I didn't feel confident about facing a brick to the grid but I was just sat behind my desk fúcking about with it.
 
#14
What are the helmets in the OP? Not seen those before.

They ran out of the ones I have pictured, preferring ones that actually do a better job at protecting the wearer, as in the pic you refer to.

The 'NATO' helmet had a serious flaw that the opposition quickly found. A hammer swung at the side of the helmet caused it to break off, and with the Met's insistence that the chain of command be easily identifiable from the front, as well as behind, they targeted Sgt's and Inspectors at the Welling Riot, leading to the higher number of broken jaws and fractured skulls among the supervisory ranks than the PCs. It got a bit lively, I can tell you.
We blocked the road to the BNP HQ with shield serials and mounted branch.The official terminus for the march was a park on a hillside along a short road to our right. Which Gold and Silver commanders, in the planning stage, looked at on a map and said "Yep, that will work a treat."?
Did the marchers willingly turn right? of course not.
Word had already reached us that Sgts and Inspectors were being singled out earlier on the route, and the Battle of Broken Arrow Junction commenced. We lost our inspector and two out of three sergeants who had not swapped helmets with PC drivers in the rear, but to paraphrase Gandalf, they did not pass.
However, over an hour later, after we had thinned them out a bit, and the march headed to the park, the genius , wisdom, and complete and utter lack of common sense of Gold and Silver had them order the suited and booted unit in the park to put their shields and helmets in their vehicles so as to 'defuse the situation'.
They were getting seven bells kicked out of them until we attacked from the rear, without orders from Gold or Silver, and horses run uphill far quicker than shield serials can, so we were a tad puffed when we got there.
The helmet issue was looked at in the aftermath, and was probably still being looked at seventeen years later when I handed in my kit, including the same helmet I had worn that day, and retired.

I am in there, somewhere.


(Not my helmet, I never served in norf lundin)

 
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#15
I've seen the public order training pop up in various threads and programs about Army training. I stole this one from another part of the site:


View attachment 372653

I was wondering what the score is with the long shields being quite different from the police ones. They appear to be smaller, appear to interlock and are more rigid.

Job ones haven't changed in literally decades, they're generally more flexible and taller.

This is a picture from Lewisham in 1977, for Level 2 they're basically the same:
View attachment 372667

Perhaps someone who's been on both sides of the....fence, can comment?

Are the tactics significantly different (when not incorporating firearms)? Just idle interest.
Oooh look ! Tall lean Policemen !
 
#16
Same shield used by U.K. cops and soldiers. The big difference is how thay are held.

Cops hold the shield with 2 hands and use no baton, soldiers hold the shield with one arm and use a baton.

The shield held with 2 hands is way more manoeuvreable, solid and the base of it can be used to strike people across the upper thighs or chest. Using a baton with an intermediate shield is awkward and means you have to open up the shield to do it.

PSNI still hold shield with 1 arm and use batons.

I personally prefer the 2 handed method. Gives more stand-off capability and stability and allows more control of it.
 
#17
Same shield used by U.K. cops and soldiers. The big difference is how thay are held.

Cops hold the shield with 2 hands and use no baton, soldiers hold the shield with one arm and use a baton.

The shield held with 2 hands is way more manoeuvreable, solid and the base of it can be used to strike people across the upper thighs or chest. Using a baton with an intermediate shield is awkward and means you have to open up the shield to do it.

PSNI still hold shield with 1 arm and use batons.

I personally prefer the 2 handed method. Gives more stand-off capability and stability and allows more control of it.

From what I can remember you still have the option to hold it two handed? However when the batons are "loaded" it is a one hand job.

Only done the training but I'm surprised people run onto the shield, getting hit with a blue alkathene pipe was bad enough never mind a proper wooden/plastic baton.
 

MOzanne

On ROPS
On ROPs
#18
The shield held with 2 hands is way more manoeuvreable, solid and the base of it can be used to strike people across the upper thighs or chest. Using a baton with an intermediate shield is awkward and means you have to open up the shield to do it.
Well originally it was designed to be used with one of these...

1547898767863.png


1547898716551.png


So you could work through a narrow gap.....
 
#19
From what I can remember you still have the option to hold it two handed? However when the batons are "loaded" it is a one hand job.

Only done the training but I'm surprised people run onto the shield, getting hit with a blue alkathene pipe was bad enough never mind a proper wooden/plastic baton.
Having done both types of training, I can’t understand why you would use a long baton with an intermediate shield. It is awkward, means you have to open the shield to strike and takes the stable control of the shield away. Using the shield to strike is a better option IMHO.

Each PSU has 2 intermediate shield serials and a round shield serial, the round shields carry long batons and are used for baton tactics.
 

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