LONDONS to part... was it a happy marriage?

#1
Lets not bother with the " yeah but you lot are a bunch of cnuts" , but has the London Regiment - in its RGJ linked incarnation - been a success??
 
#3
It might not have been the crossposting success that the grownups were touting, or hoping for, but the Regiment put Company sized formations together for TELIC, plus augmentees, and thus proved that the TA Infantry could perform the job that was required of them.

The rest of the stuff that appears on this site is just the normal inter-tribal banter that you get between any unit.

It's the same banter you had when they were still their individual battalion sized elements.
 
#4
Put bluntly 4 out of the 5 capbadges within the Regiment will not lose any sleep.

F and G Company were fortunate that the London Regiment was there to absorb them when 4 RGJ disbanded. However a weak CO sold everyone the line that the London Regiment were amalgamating with 4 RGJ so as not to upset anyone!

In the Territorial reorganisation of 1999, both the 4th and 5th Battalions were disbanded. The rifle companies were absorbed into The London Regiment and The Royal Rifle Volunteers, where they remain as Green Jacket badged companies.
Source - http://www.army.mod.uk/royalgreenjackets/reg_heritage/territorial_battalions.html

By refusing to wear the Londons shoulder titles then being worn by the regiment and by retaining RGJ in the company titles rather than display their Queen's Royal Rifles and London Rifle Brigade/Rangers heritage, it was evidant from day one the 'marriage' was hardly likely to celebrate many wedding anniversaries.

Seven years on, most members of the Regiment will now want to put the green chapter behind them and return to the days when there was a healthy inter company rivalry (Queen's vs. Fusiliers, Jocks vs. Micks, Celts vs. English, North vs. South London) and not the unhealthy inter-company rivalry made visible to 6,000,0000,000,000 people via the internet by perpetuating this paradigm of them and us.

Interestingly I can still remember the East End vs. West End rivalry of the London based companies of the old 4 RGJ and also the Cockney Wide Boys vs. Local Yokel rivalry at battalion level which appears to have been conveniently forgotten.

I'll have a quiet wager that the TA Forum on ARRSE will be a less interesting place to visit if you were hoping to see more 'washing of Londons dirty linen in a public place'. Let's wait out to see how long it takes to see similar threads appear about the new Rifles Battalion.

To all those Greenjackets who did try and make the heavy/light Londons work and in particular those who served in Cambrai and Messines Companies on Telic, I wish you all the best in your new battalion, but sadly you are in a very small minority.
 
#5
diehard57 said:
I'll have a quiet wager that the TA Forum on ARRSE will be a less interesting place to visit if you were hoping to see more 'washing of Londons dirty linen in a public place'. Let's wait out to see how long it takes to see similar threads appear about the new Rifles Battalion.
Trust me, this didn't make ARRSE interesting.

msr
 
#6
diehard57 said:
By refusing to wear the Londons shoulder titles then being worn by the regiment and by retaining RGJ in the company titles rather than display their Queen's Royal Rifles and London Rifle Brigade/Rangers heritage, it was evidant from day one the 'marriage' was hardly likely to celebrate many wedding anniversaries.
.
The other rifle companes also retain the titles of their ancestor units. I also cannot recall seeing any Londons shoulder titles being worn by the non_RGJ blokes, but I stand to be corrected. I cannot see why we would resurrect unit names that have long fallen out of the Army list.

You infer that the RGJ disbanded and after a short delay, accepted into the Londons. If this had happened, then the RGJ would all have had to re-enlist, or sign transfer papers. This is not the case.

BOTH the "old" Londons, and 4RGJ disbanded and formed the "new" London Regiment AIUI. Check the boards at RHQ.

Around 40% of the boots on the ground will be joining the Rifles, and regardless of how unwelcome you may feel the RGJ have been,
( and I would disagree with you on that anyway - most of the blokes now serving have only ever known the Bn as it now stands ) the fact is that there will be a severe manning issue when the RGJ side leaves. I'm not carping on about this: I've some good mates on the heavy side and I fear for their future.

BB
 
#8
Bravo_Bravo said:
diehard57 said:
By refusing to wear the Londons shoulder titles then being worn by the regiment and by retaining RGJ in the company titles rather than display their Queen's Royal Rifles and London Rifle Brigade/Rangers heritage, it was evidant from day one the 'marriage' was hardly likely to celebrate many wedding anniversaries.
.
The other rifle companes also retain the titles of their ancestor units. I also cannot recall seeing any Londons shoulder titles being worn by the non_RGJ blokes, but I stand to be corrected. I cannot see why we would resurrect unit names that have long fallen out of the Army list.

You infer that the RGJ disbanded and after a short delay, accepted into the Londons. If this had happened, then the RGJ would all have had to re-enlist, or sign transfer papers. This is not the case.

BOTH the "old" Londons, and 4RGJ disbanded and formed the "new" London Regiment AIUI. Check the boards at RHQ.

BB
Without wanting to open old/new wounds. At the time of thr RGJ joining Londons, the exisiting elements wore Londons titles. This was stopped when you joined them as you refused to wear anything other than RGJ titles, so it was decided either everyone did or no-one did. Wanting to make the transfer as painless(?) as possible, no-one did and there was a subsequent resurgence of everyone trying to push their own regimental identity.

As for the transfer/delay: regardless of what is on the boards at mafia HQ, sorry, Regt HQ, I'll refer you to this entry on the Army website: http://www.army.mod.uk/londonregt/london_regimental_history.htm. Clearly states the London Regt 'absorbed' the remnants of 4 RGJ. The London Regt was not disbanded - no one signed any re-enlistment papers, the colours were not laid up or replaced, the regtl crest was not changed. It merely absorbed 2 new companies whose previous Bn had been disbanded.

You and I have discussed this in the past BB and the axe I ground has long been laid up. 40% of the boots may go? Well so be it, I am sure recruiting as part of the Household Div will have new challenges.
 
#9
VVV

I did not know the earlier incarnation wore Londons shoulder titles.

I've trid the link but it does not work.

FWIW I'd agree that the old axe grinding has long gone.
 
#10
Cloth shoulder tabs for old green shirts with 'LONDONS' on, and black or gold metal titles with 'LONDON REGIMENT' for Service dress if I remember rightly. It was considered the unifying factor across the Regiment which bit the dust when you guys arrived.

Sorry about the link mate, bit of a technomong at times, just try 'The London Regiment' on Google, it should be the first link, click on Regtl history.

VVV
 
#11
ViVictaVis said:
Cloth shoulder tabs for old green shirts with 'LONDONS' on, and black or gold metal titles with 'LONDON REGIMENT' for Service dress if I remember rightly. It was considered the unifying factor across the Regiment which bit the dust when you guys arrived.

Sorry about the link mate, bit of a technomong at times, just try 'The London Regiment' on Google, it should be the first link, click on Regtl history.

VVV
So when the RGJ depart one would assume The Londons will look to go back to a "unifying factor", something along the lines of a single cap badge on a guards beret perhaps ? :wink:

Lets face it the SDR done no one any favours, 4&5 RGJ should have merged then, what's going on now at least makes some sense. The money saved after screwing the TA all over the place was lost about a month after the SDR was implemented when a Tornado creamed in...
 
#12
A "unifying factor", thats a interesting concept.

Like thats going to happen, do you really think the London Scots, Irish, Fusilleers or PW's will give up their cap badge etc, i dont think so !

And so they should'nt either - but sometimes change comes in mysterious ways - Guards for example.
 
#13
lacrabat said:
ViVictaVis said:
Cloth shoulder tabs for old green shirts with 'LONDONS' on, and black or gold metal titles with 'LONDON REGIMENT' for Service dress if I remember rightly. It was considered the unifying factor across the Regiment which bit the dust when you guys arrived.

Sorry about the link mate, bit of a technomong at times, just try 'The London Regiment' on Google, it should be the first link, click on Regtl history.

VVV
So when the RGJ depart one would assume The Londons will look to go back to a "unifying factor", something along the lines of a single cap badge on a guards beret perhaps ? :wink:
Nope, curiously enough they are going back to have regimental shoulder titles! (Plus Guards TRFs I believe :( )
 
#14
But all Seniors have been thold they will now have to turn up to all mess meetings in London Regt ties not their own cap badge and they will have to buy them too. Well that will make a big difference then :lol:
 
#15
Happy - maybe not, but it was a marriage of convenience - for both the light & heavy sides. It was an awkward merger but now both sides can move on to bigger & better things.

Maybe we will see some light bods staying with the Londons or heavies moving away at 140 a minute? In a few years we will wonder what all the fuss was about. But I wonder if we saw the bigger picture. The Londons model, as used by the TA Inf was successful in keeping the TA Inf alive until the new regiments came along. We all now that the MoD were thinking about binning the TA Inf. Maybe we should all be thankful for the success of the Londons?
 
#16
Was the Londons a success then ?

Judging by what i have read on ARRSE, i would say not.

A badly conceived idea that was made to work by the army system, i.e " i'm a Col and you will/ it will happen this way".
after all, if it doesnt work then the Col can kiss goodbye to his promotion. But what the hell, it only cost the tax payer £millions !

dont get me wrong - i'm NOT in anyway degrading ANY of the units that formed the Londons - they are all good at what they do ( in their own way).
But really, at the end of the day, its like chalk and cheese, it doesnt make a good sandwich !
 
#17
Sack_them_all said:
But all Seniors have been thold they will now have to turn up to all mess meetings in London Regt ties not their own cap badge and they will have to buy them too. Well that will make a big difference then :lol:
They have tried for years to make all SNCO's buy and wear the London Regt tie.

I think they gave up trying. lol lmfao :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
#18
It was a success in keeping TA Inf alive. The Londons model was used the length and breadth of the land. Don't forget we lost alot of Inf coys to RLC, Yeomanry & Sigs, and it could have been more if the Londons hadn't been long established as a multi cap-badged Bn. Now those remaining Coys can merge into Bn's of a single identity cap-badge and become a real part of the regiment.

As for the bickering & slagging - you get that in most units about which Coy/Sqn/Bty is best and which fecks up the most. The trouble was a volatile mix of Heavy & Light. The Londons never had any bother before the RGJ turned up (and I'm ex 4RGJ and worked alongside the Londons Mk1 so I know what I'm talking about)
 
#19
buges said:
Sack_them_all said:
But all Seniors have been thold they will now have to turn up to all mess meetings in London Regt ties not their own cap badge and they will have to buy them too. Well that will make a big difference then :lol:
They have tried for years to make all SNCO's buy and wear the London Regt tie.

I think they gave up trying. lol lmfao :lol: :lol: :lol:
PSI's now have no choice and the badge will start getting stoppy with everyone else and start a series of no coffee meetings, thank god we're off then just when they have all bought one they will have to get one of those blue and burgundy stripey ones as well :twisted:
 
#20
TheSpecialOne said:
The trouble was a volatile mix of Heavy & Light. The Londons never had any bother before the RGJ turned up (and I'm ex 4RGJ and worked alongside the Londons Mk1 so I know what I'm talking about)
Why does this really matter? Not being hostile, just curious. After all - engineers have had to go inf and vice-versa and even worse yeomanry have had to go sigs.

Was in a certain Northern regiment with no cap badge problems but where the sub-units were from traditionally rival cities. The genuine violence that erupted on exercise as the lads happily took to the task of fighting with the enemy was something else.
 

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