London's burning

HSF

LE
RTA is old speak, they're not accidents, someone messed up. RTC in modern speak.
Bollocks to then all my working life it was RTA & shall remain so.
Nope. Almost right, though. Thanks to the documentary film, Hot Fuzz, l know it stands for "Road Traffic Collision". And the reason why they changed it is because the word "accident" implies that there isn't someone to blame.
PC Bollocks at work
Wholesale and almost universally detrimental changes were made to the fire services during the new Labour government, facilitated by the then hierarchy of the FBU choosing to embark on the most ill conceived, unnecessary and damaging strike in fire service history.
In the future, you will almost certainly see fire services being far more involved in building inspection in the way that they were prior to about 2000. There are currently schemes being piloted in some services where operational crews are involved in commercial/industrial premise inspections. Five will get you ten that this will become increasingly the norm again in the wake of the inquiry.
I was in the LFB & in the 70's & 8o's we certainly were involvved at station level in local fire prevention & inspections called "11d" inspections..In the 1990's I tried to get a brand new Canary wharf tower shut down becauuse one occupant (a large office complex)refused to do a fire drill.Unfortunately I was overuled from "upstairs" a sighn of things to come?
 
Bollocks to then all my working life it was RTA & shall remain so.

PC Bollocks at work

I was in the LFB & in the 70's & 8o's we certainly were involvved at station level in local fire prevention & inspections called "11d" inspections..In the 1990's I tried to get a brand new Canary wharf tower shut down becauuse one occupant (a large office complex)refused to do a fire drill.Unfortunately I was overuled from "upstairs" a sighn of things to come?
I remember doing 11D’s, they were more about gathering info for crews in the event of an incident. That still happens, only now it is called an SSRI: site specific risk assessment. I’m referring more to crews doing inspections with a view to enforcement, again, where I am this used to happen.
I can well recall inspecting certified premises under the old FP act 1971. We also used to do non certified premises like nursing homes on behalf of local authorities, although it was they who had the final say on whether they enforced following our recommendations in the report. We even used to inspect petroleum installations. I don’t expect the new regime to be that comprehensive but I certainly predict some form of return to inspecting commercial/industrial premises, and from operational crews rather than just from the small dedicated enforcement departments. The national fire chiefs council will probably have some input with this, as no doubt will the HMICFRS.
 
....I don’t expect the new regime to be that comprehensive but I certainly predict some form of return to inspecting commercial/industrial premises, and from operational crews rather than just from the small dedicated enforcement departments. The national fire chiefs council will probably have some input with this, as no doubt will the HMICFRS.

Inspection can't help with poor design, too late at that stage. Construction defects will be covered over and out of sight, and the Grenfell inquiry has already shown nobody has much idea about materials.
 
And failure to test combustion as it would be deployed on the building. Lack of forethought, ignorance or deception?

I don't think there'll ever be a clear outcome to this inquiry. How do you split the responsibility between manufacturers and specifiers/architects?

I think materials QA was mentioned a few pages back. If tests are going to be fiddled it means nothing.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Any one ever watch Get Carter ?
Remember the multi storey car park with the winding ramp and the restaurant at the top ?
that never opened because the fire brigade quite rightly banned its use, as it had no seperate safe means of escape
had a car or cars caught fire the clients would have been toast
nowadays they would have got the thing open
likewise the Liverpool car park, I am sure that if the responsibility was given to the Fire Brigade it would have had sprinklers fitted

 
Remember the multi storey car park with the winding ramp and the restaurant at the top ?
that never opened because the fire brigade quite rightly banned its use, as it had no seperate safe means of escape
had a car or cars caught fire the clients would have been toast
Sure? The Wiki page you linked to says it had a covered walkway and an open bridge, presumably in addition to the vehicle ramps.

It also said that the cafe didn't open because a tenant couldn't be found, no mention of fire brigade involvement (wouldn't that exceed their remit?).
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Sure? The Wiki page you linked to says it had a covered walkway and an open bridge, presumably in addition to the vehicle ramps.

It also said that the cafe didn't open because a tenant couldn't be found, no mention of fire brigade involvement (wouldn't that exceed their remit?).
I read an article about it, just before it was demolished and it was quite clear on the lack of a safe escape route
 
Inspection can't help with poor design, too late at that stage. Construction defects will be covered over and out of sight, and the Grenfell inquiry has already shown nobody has much idea about materials.
I agree wholly with your first point, it is indeed too late once the construction is done. As to not having much idea about construction materials...
Grenfell Tower inquiry: Cladding firm 'knew of fire risk'
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
An interesting article in Yesterdays times,
Property developers who built flats covered in dangerous cladding have donated 2.5Million to the Conservative party since the Grenfell tower fire in 2017
Boris Johnson
trousered £50,000 from individuals linked to the cladding debacle ?
they go on to list the names involved, no surpises there, the same lot all looking after each other and climbing the greasy pole
Perhaps, it is about time we had a change in our Constitution, and made politicians work for a set wage ?
and ban donations and other Apron wearing cliques from getting too close
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
...
and ban donations and other Apron wearing cliques from getting too close
Knock it off, I'm quite happy with anything the French maids wish to donate.
 

RiffRaff

Clanker
An interesting article in Yesterdays times,
Property developers who built flats covered in dangerous cladding have donated 2.5Million to the Conservative party since the Grenfell tower fire in 2017
Boris Johnson
trousered £50,000 from individuals linked to the cladding debacle ?
they go on to list the names involved, no surpises there, the same lot all looking after each other and climbing the greasy pole
Perhaps, it is about time we had a change in our Constitution, and made politicians work for a set wage ?
and ban donations and other Apron wearing cliques from getting too close
The Tories have a Russian/Israeli "art dealer" as their party treasurer. The money from the cladding suppliers is chump change when it comes to buying influence power.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
An interesting article in Yesterdays times,
Property developers who built flats covered in dangerous cladding have donated 2.5Million to the Conservative party since the Grenfell tower fire in 2017
Boris Johnson
trousered £50,000 from individuals linked to the cladding debacle ?
they go on to list the names involved, no surpises there, the same lot all looking after each other and climbing the greasy pole
Perhaps, it is about time we had a change in our Constitution, and made politicians work for a set wage ?
and ban donations and other Apron wearing cliques from getting too close
The 1832 Reform of Parliament started the payment of wages to MPs, so the job would no longer be restricted to those of private means.

How you stop the buggers truousering more from other sources has been a challenge ever since.

Unless you make them wear shirts listing their sponsors, like sportspeople, I can't see it stopping.

The Parliamentary Standards Committee appears toothless and the whole lot of them appear to be corrupt, whether Commons or Lords.
 
The 1832 Reform of Parliament started the payment of wages to MPs, so the job would no longer be restricted to those of private means.

How you stop the buggers truousering more from other sources has been a challenge ever since.

Unless you make them wear shirts listing their sponsors, like sportspeople, I can't see it stopping.

The Parliamentary Standards Committee appears toothless and the whole lot of them appear to be corrupt, whether Commons or Lords.
Appear?

Jings.
 

Chef

LE
The 1832 Reform of Parliament started the payment of wages to MPs, so the job would no longer be restricted to those of private means.

How you stop the buggers truousering more from other sources has been a challenge ever since.

Unless you make them wear shirts listing their sponsors, like sportspeople, I can't see it stopping.

The Parliamentary Standards Committee appears toothless and the whole lot of them appear to be corrupt, whether Commons or Lords.
I thought it was the 1911 act that enabled them to get their hands on tax payer's money.

I don't recall any history lesson that mentions times when parliament was empty because no one would do the job for nothing.

Equally the decline of the UK seems to coincide with the advent of professional MPs.

If they had to survive on the bog standard state pension it'd be up to about £50,000pa by now.
 
Equally the decline of the UK seems to coincide with the advent of professional MPs.
B13OQxyIIAIW0v7.png
 

Yokel

LE
On a different topic, since the Grenville fire have the Fire Brigades had access to any specialist equipment for fighting fires in high rise buildings or rescuing people from them?

What about extinguishing catastrophic cascading fires, such as cladding catching alight?
 

Latest Threads

Top