London's burning

Dicky Ticker

War Hero
We have small smoke hoods with a filter that comes in a can for use in evacuating rooms in the accom block at work.

You're not going to spend 30 minutes fighting a fire in them, but for the five or ten minutes it takes to get out, they're better than nothing.

As with anything else fire related in situations like these, you need to be trained to use them. It might only be a five minutes "before we take off.." type drill but it will need to be done regularly and you would need to keep records about who did and who did not attend. Now try giving the training to old folk, young kids and those who don't see the point some of whom don't have a decent grasp of English. Now leave enough of these smoke hoods in everyones accomodation, hoping that they are not lost, sold, used to filter drugs or hooch, or in some other way abused to render them useless when you actually need them....

It's bad enough trying to hold regular evacuation drills for a work group who are supposed to be grown up and intelligent without a regular percentage forgetting what they have to do, taking the time to finish their coffee / crossword / email, getting stroppy that they have too much to do so they will just "pretend to evacuate just like you are pretending there is a fire".....

For the last lot I used to ask calmly for their name and company badge number. It was usually provided, but when questioned why my response was "so that when the fire investigators removed your charred remains for the post mortem we can tell them who you were..."
 
Too true. In a regulated work environment such as an oil camp these things do the job.

You're wasting your time with the third world mindset found in many high capacity accommodation environments where entitlement and larceny for personal gain outweigh community betterment. They like to throw the ubuntu meme about in these parts but the real meaning, as often demonstrated and opposed to the one punted by govt, is the act of stepping on the throat of your dying grandmother in order to get half an inch ahead of the next bloke.

The ony time the community stop preying on each other and get together behind a common cause is when they can have a go at the common enemy, or if there's a quick buck to be made.
 
As with anything else fire related in situations like these, you need to be trained to use them. It might only be a five minutes "before we take off.." type drill but it will need to be done regularly and you would need to keep records about who did and who did not attend. Now try giving the training to old folk, young kids and those who don't see the point some of whom don't have a decent grasp of English. Now leave enough of these smoke hoods in everyones accomodation, hoping that they are not lost, sold, used to filter drugs or hooch, or in some other way abused to render them useless when you actually need them....

It's bad enough trying to hold regular evacuation drills for a work group who are supposed to be grown up and intelligent without a regular percentage forgetting what they have to do, taking the time to finish their coffee / crossword / email, getting stroppy that they have too much to do so they will just "pretend to evacuate just like you are pretending there is a fire".....

For the last lot I used to ask calmly for their name and company badge number. It was usually provided, but when questioned why my response was "so that when the fire investigators removed your charred remains for the post mortem we can tell them who you were..."
No matter how much you train "normal people"in the use of firefighting kit it will go out the window when real flames come on the scene. Que Benny Hill theme tune and great mirth.
 

TamH70

MIA
No matter how much you train "normal people"in the use of firefighting kit it will go out the window when real flames come on the scene. Que Benny Hill theme tune and great mirth.
You mean like this?

 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
You're wasting your time with the third world mindset found in many high capacity accommodation environments where entitlement and larceny for personal gain outweigh community betterment. They like to throw the ubuntu meme about in these parts but the real meaning, as often demonstrated and opposed to the one punted by govt, is the act of stepping on the throat of your dying grandmother in order to get half an inch ahead of the next bloke.

The ony time the community stop preying on each other and get together behind a common cause is when they can have a go at the common enemy, or if there's a quick buck to be made.
That sounds just like the Grenfell lot to me.
 
One of the proposals from the Fire Service College post-Kegworth was the provision of smoke hoods for pax.
The CAA conducted some trials and quietly dropped the idea.
As it was explained to me at the time by the head of safety at CAA: ‘The problem was the marked reluctance of pax to, basically, put a plastic bag over their heads, something we are brought up NOT to do from our earliest childhood because of the dire consequences.’
 

Awol

LE
As with anything else fire related in situations like these, you need to be trained to use them. It might only be a five minutes "before we take off.." type drill but it will need to be done regularly and you would need to keep records about who did and who did not attend. Now try giving the training to old folk, young kids and those who don't see the point some of whom don't have a decent grasp of English. Now leave enough of these smoke hoods in everyones accomodation, hoping that they are not lost, sold, used to filter drugs or hooch, or in some other way abused to render them useless when you actually need them....

It's bad enough trying to hold regular evacuation drills for a work group who are supposed to be grown up and intelligent without a regular percentage forgetting what they have to do, taking the time to finish their coffee / crossword / email, getting stroppy that they have too much to do so they will just "pretend to evacuate just like you are pretending there is a fire".....

For the last lot I used to ask calmly for their name and company badge number. It was usually provided, but when questioned why my response was "so that when the fire investigators removed your charred remains for the post mortem we can tell them who you were..."
I bow to your greater knowledge, but I can't see how difficult it is to fit a wire loop that feeds into the the fire alarm that when broken (a) calls the fire brigade, and (b) prevents theft.

As for instruction, if opening the emergency doors and escaping a burning passenger jet can be easily explained by diagrams, why can't the same be used to tell someone how to put a simple hood on?
 
iirc the lfb planned for a ba team to carry a couple in with them on persons reported jobs, on top of the hose reel tic radio breaking in tools and other stuff
 

Dicky Ticker

War Hero
I bow to your greater knowledge, but I can't see how difficult it is to fit a wire loop that feeds into the the fire alarm that when broken (a) calls the fire brigade, and (b) prevents theft.

As for instruction, if opening the emergency doors and escaping a burning passenger jet can be easily explained by diagrams, why can't the same be used to tell someone how to put a simple hood on?
For the first question, you'd be surprised how often there would be false alarms or deliberate tampering which means a call out for the fire brigade. It will soon get very tiring. As for the second, well you are in an aircraft and all the emergency equipment stays in the aircraft. Look around your house and tell me where you would put the smoke hoods so you could find them easily in the dark and smoke, and then consider tidying up the house, or decorating, or any other activity where you move things around. Then consider kids playing with the hoods as toys, or granny not remembering what they are for or do they put the hood on before or after their teeth...?

fun fact for the day, when airlines test their evacuation drills they use fit, trained, disciplined young people. There is a time limit for evacuating an aircraft that the design must meet before it is certified for civil use, memory is a bit foggy but I think it is ninety seconds (A380 got a special dispensation to deploy the slides from the upper deck before the test started). In a real emergency it's every soul for themselves, so don't sit in a window seat if the aisle and middle are filled with pensioners unless you are sitting at an overwing exit.
 
As for instruction, if opening the emergency doors and escaping a burning passenger jet can be easily explained by diagrams, why can't the same be used to tell someone how to put a simple hood on?
Perception of risk?
The prospect of surviving a burning crashed aircraft is slim so passengers heed advice that increases their chance of survival. Residents view the risk of dying in a burning building as slim so rely on the emergency services to do everything necessary not only to ensure their survival but also to protect their belongings.

A different onus of responsibility.
 
Perception of risk?
The prospect of surviving a burning crashed aircraft is slim so passengers heed advice that increases their chance of survival. Residents view the risk of dying in a burning building as slim so rely on the emergency services to do everything necessary not only to ensure their survival but also to protect their belongings.

A different onus of responsibility.
PC head on here, good deed for the day, smoke detector fitted and looked after checked and cleaned is what will make the difference, i can recall searching a smoke logged house to discover the SD on the stairs taken down and left with the vents carpet side, one of the EMs finest moments
 
And now Cheshire's burning. I'm surprised at the lack of outrage over this one - a newish-looking retirement complex in Crewe, 150 residents, completely destroyed. Surely something wrong there with building standards and fire protection?

Image result for crewe fire
 

Dicky Ticker

War Hero
And now Cheshire's burning. I'm surprised at the lack of outrage over this one - a newish-looking retirement complex in Crewe, 150 residents, completely destroyed. Surely something wrong there with building standards and fire protection?

Image result for crewe fire
Quick sidebar talking about fire protection, the fire training college in the UK had a bit of a faux pas a couple of years ago when the equipment shed that housed all the fire engines went up in flames. Eleven engines of various types were totally destroyed, one of the findings was that smoke detection systems should have been fitted but weren't because it was assumed there was no risk to personnel in the engine shed.

So detecting smoke doesn't usually mean there is a fire then.....
 
And now Cheshire's burning. I'm surprised at the lack of outrage over this one - a newish-looking retirement complex in Crewe, 150 residents, completely destroyed. Surely something wrong there with building standards and fire protection?

Image result for crewe fire
Let's establish who the residents are before the hand wringing starts and we give out wads of cash for hotels and lost personal items, see local politicians with their crocodile tears then release the charity single, t- shirts, calendars.
 
Quick sidebar talking about fire protection, the fire training college in the UK had a bit of a faux pas a couple of years ago when the equipment shed that housed all the fire engines went up in flames. Eleven engines of various types were totally destroyed, one of the findings was that smoke detection systems should have been fitted but weren't because it was assumed there was no risk to personnel in the engine shed.

So detecting smoke doesn't usually mean there is a fire then.....
Would that have been the occasion when, despite the College having all the latest firefighting kit and, given the nature of the establishment, being full of senior and potentially senior fire officers, union rules meant any on-site incidents had to be tackled by the retained service in nearby Moreton-in- Marsh and not by those at the College.
Of course, most of the retained force were actually serving at the College.
So, while their colleagues watched helplessly, staff who were on the retained force responded to their pagers, legged it the couple of miles into town, jumped aboard the appliances there and drove back to the College.
By the time they got back, the damage had been done!
 
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