I believe it is time for a review of LOA and that the emphasis needs to be taken away from rank and number of kids. I have an average sized wife and skinny son and believe therefore that I should not get the same LOA as my Master Chef whose wife is over 20 stone and whose two children are fatties. Obviously his 20 stone wife and fat kids eat more food than my wife and kid so why shouldnt he get paid more LOA.


War Hero
Ever since the days of being a thrusting Adjt, I have lived in private accom outside the wire.  This causes a burden to me (well not really, as I'm CGS you understand), but at the same time relieves the military of having to tax your parents to provide for my digs.

I think a new strand of LOA should be introduced...  Living Outside-the-wire Allowance!!

And before you OR and comprehensive school types shoot me down, I will get LOA for the little Exercise I attended in the Alps...  Haw Haw
If said cook (chef my arse) has a frau of this size, he should cook the porker, sell her as uglywurst and donate the pence to the bereaved families of the blokes he kills with salmonella etc.
Junior Officers should receive a higher rate of LOA than senior ones instead of the other way round.

Senior Officers loathe digging into their pockets and spending any money. They will never go out during that 30-second R & R phase you now get overseas. If they are badgered into going out then yes they will go for a nice meal in a decent restaurant. Which can cost money! But it ends there.

Junior Officers will go out have a nice meal with a decent bottle (or 2) of wine, try and tap off with the waitress and then carry on p*ssing it up and trying to s**g the locals till the wee hours often returning late and incurring further financial penalties.

How can a system, where a 2Lt picks up less than a pte soldier, (and considerably less than a Maj) yet it cost more for them to live be fair?

Bring in performance related LOA. If you score and you do the Army proud but in the process incur some charges (not directly link to the score) then this should be off set with a different LOA allowance.


The Families Sgt of a Scottish Regiment was surprised when, one month after they were deployed to Bosnia, was surprised to be offered a wad of money by one of 'his wives'.  She told him: that hubby had said that the LOA on this payslip was a deduction that he had to pay to the Regiment for being in Germany.  She being a trusting soul duly turned up to the Families Office to pay their dues.  

You can imagine the reception when hubby returned on R&R!!
i would love to have LOA whilst out in Cyprus,but no! they decided to give us a wonderfully new OWP package,which i can safely say has proved to be absolute toss,and yes apparently they are changing it back again to LOA instead when the next regiment takes over from us! :mad: what a load of crap,we'll just be their test rats and lose out on our LOA which wouldv'e been a lot more handy!


Careful you dont give out the wrong signals (pardon the pun) FC, some people might think that some of us are only in it for the money!!


I agree somewhat with the TARA.
LOA does need to be reviewed. ALL RANKS regardless of how many rugrats they have should be paid the exact same.
As for the items contained within the current assessment per rank, what a load of bollocks. Who the hell is to say what rank prefers to attend what kind of function or where they'd prefer to eat, drink etc.
If thats the case surely the difference in the ranks normal daily rate of pay facilitates this. Is this not how they manage to go to the fancy restaurants in UK as opposed to fast food facilities.
The other that grips my sphincter is that singlies do not go to supermarkets unlike PADS. Get a grip, obviously the board do not visit the realm of the lettuce assassins on their visits.


Hey Gopherpile, I see where your coming from.  LOA needs some serious re-writing.  Why not give LOA to all those regardless of rank, marital status and/or children.  But solely on which theatre your in.  Giving everybody the same amount of money for the job away from the base. Afterall doesn't LOA stand for Local Overseas Allowance, allowing personnel to live overseas without incurring financial penalties.  I'm damn sure the restaurant owner isn't gonna charge you two quid less for that meal because your a full-screw and not a sergeant !!!


Happy with you SilverWolf.
Top idea, however I doubt the lunatics in charge will ever allow it to happen in our lifetime.
It would infringe too much on their social scene (regardless of the entertainment allowance their allowed), dress sense (wives tweed suits and mens sporting jackets complete with leather elbow patches), car purchases (Volvo and Mercedes would go bankrupt).
LOA for a specific theatre, same for all ranks regardless of their marital status and sprogs would definetely balance it all out. As you summised correctly it is to offset costs of your posting as opposed to UK.
How they spend their wages on activities should come from their salaries as it would in UK. Imagine the money the MOD would save if it was like this.
Best be careful setting ourselves up here for an MBE if we're not careful. Better still that money might get us some better kit.


As you summised correctly it is to offset costs of your posting as opposed to UK.

Exactly, but singlies don't have to buy food unless they choose to.  Pads get more because they NEED more, their cost of living is higher, you can't disagree with that surely?  Please explain to me exactly what a singlie buys that would necessitate more LOA!


Not disputing the fact that PADS have to buy food.
Disputing the fact that  PTES, JNCO, SNCO and Orifices are all on different amounts, married or single.
Chances are all married ranks shop at predominately the same supermarket, so why the difference in daily amount.
Okay fine a higher amount for those who have to support a spouse and kids. But surely this is there choice to have such. By nature of this choice they must be aware of an added financial burden upon their salary as a result.
As to your original question about what singlies have to buy.
Majority of singlies do their training straight after work as opposed to going to scoff, therefor miss it so buy items to have after activity has stopped. There is the argument to do it later granted, however by the time it's settled your talking late into the evening when some facilities are shut. Also scoff is to some too early another reason why phys is done at this time.
Taking that on board singlies are therefor paying for food they aren't eating then shelling out again in supermarkets so they can eat.
Unfortunately we haven't got pay as you dine overseas yet.


Gopher, I agree there shouldn't be different rates between ranks but there must be different rates for pads and singlies.  LOA is to cover the extra expense of living overseas where prices are substantially more expensive than in UK.  You surely can't dispute that pads spend most of their money on necessities whereby singlies spend most of their money on luxuries.

As for your argument that the mealtimes in the cookhouse don't suit your training programme, by your own argument that is your choice not to attend these meals.  PAYD and paying for meals you haven't eaten is a whole other can of worms and not particularly relevant to your argument I feel.


What a PAD spends there money on is really down to them. Be interested to find out your designation of luxuries to necessities .
Okay true I conciede that PADS will buy more groceries than a singlie, however being overseas I know there are facilities which allows TAX FREE grocery shopping (especially in Germany) so bearing this in mind the cost of monthly shop will result in being relatively close to that in the UK where you don't get LOA , so there is no argument.
Most wives don't but clothes in the country they're in, trend leans more to UK catalogues, again no real extra cost there.


War Hero
All good arguments about why single soldiers should get more LOA but the bottom line is what has already been said, and that is married soldiers (with and without children) need to buy more household goods, clothing and essentials from the local country than single soldiers.

Furthermore, it is always worth remembering that there is only one pot of gold, and if single soldiers get more LOA then the implications for the diplomatic service, civil servants and the other 2 services will be quite significant. So if more LOA.... where will we get the money from to pay for it ? What can we do without in the Army to pay for it ?

In my view, it comes down to need and want. Do single soldiers really need LOA or is it just want ?


I feel you may be missing the point or I haven't made it clear enough Ramillies.
Not disputing the fact that PADS have or potentially have other costs to them when overseas. But if you can explain this to me.
You stated that pads have household goods, clothing etc they have to buy from local country. Why then presuming these things are common to all PADS can it be justified that for instance a Cpl (2 kids) gets approx 14 quid where as a Sgt (1 kid) approx 15quid then lets go to the extreme of a Col. ( 0 kids) 22 quid a day.
Assuming the cost of groceries for instance and other essentials are not vastly different across the ranks this cannot be justified.
The extravagances that are taken into consideration within the LOA equation i.e.  in their opinion who eats where as an example. Cpl- McDonalds, Col-fancy restaurant. This should not be in the equation as such but if they wish to divuldge in such things it should be supported by their salary. :mad:


War Hero
Why then presuming these things are common to all PADS can it be justified that for instance a Cpl (2 kids) gets approx 14 quid where as a Sgt (1 kid) approx 15quid then lets go to the extreme of a Col. ( 0 kids) 22 quid a day.

With you. I can only presume that LOA is linked to pay. The greater your spending power (and life style), the greater the need for LOA to ensure that the person in question has a comparable life style when abroad.
How about 'HEA' for those in the UK (Home Extortion Allowance)?

Scrap LOA in Germany and give it to the poor sods posted here............


POP !!! :-[ :-X :mad:
Sorry to burst the bubble Ramillies and no offence meant, ;D
however surely for example: the cost of razors is the same for everybody regardless of what side the fence your on, the other cost of lifestyle surely should be supported by the wages you earn. Not withstanding you understand the ability to reclaim monies on entertainment if your so inclined and in the position to do so. ??? ??? ???