LOA trashed The final Morale Straw?

#1
With an effective cut of £10 a day in pay and an overall reduction to the status of Cpl for all OR ranks above, on top of the rising costs of life in europe, costs of travel back to UK and cuts in CEA, morale is pretty much crushed.

Add to that suggestions that further Defence cuts will further reduce our fighting capability and possible reduce our operational effectiveness against Terry T, and that there are no funds to mainatin the quarters or accomdoation blocks and you can see a prety depressed bunch of soldiers in Hohne.

The beer better not run out!!
 
#4
Can you clarify this bit for me please:

an overall reduction to the status of Cpl for all OR ranks above
I believe that life will just tick on as usual, this sort of shit has happened before and the army has survived.
 
#5
Can you clarify this bit for me please:



I believe that life will just tick on as usual, this sort of shit has happened before and the army has survived.
If this proves to be a permanent measure, and the MoD Budget remains depressed as the rest of HM Government's budgets improve when things get better, expect a lot of people to say "**** you" and leave. People can accept short term pain IF it's only short term. If it turns into a "**** the army we don't care" then people will sign off. And it will be the best who leave, not the dross who'd fail a shelf stacking test in Aldi
 
#6
I'm with KM on this. I think we can all sense a downturn in morale and, with the inability to properly plan our futures, many people are questioning what is going to be best in the long term.
 
#7
I'm with KM on this. I think we can all sense a downturn in morale and, with the inability to properly plan our futures, many people are questioning what is going to be best in the long term.
Short term people are going to stick it where the pay is, long term, as civi jobs reappear and prospects look good, people will jump......
 
#9
If this proves to be a permanent measure, and the MoD Budget remains depressed as the rest of HM Government's budgets improve when things get better, expect a lot of people to say "**** you" and leave. People can accept short term pain IF it's only short term. If it turns into a "**** the army we don't care" then people will sign off. And it will be the best who leave, not the dross who'd fail a shelf stacking test in Aldi

I'm not actually sure if you would need to sign off - as it's a change to your terms & conditons or service you could just walk away.
 
#11
Is anyone going to sign off because they've cut LOA? Honestly?

If so then go to the Admin Office and do it. If not then man the **** up and stop whining that you've lost your cushy little bonus on top of the decent wages you already get paid.
 
#12
The real fear is that, after reducing the size of the Army through redundancy/natural wastage, or a combination of the two, the economy will start to pick up and those that are left will vote with their feet at the same time as recruiting starts to dry up, leaving the Army under-manned at the new, lower, level.

It has happened before!
 
#13
Is anyone going to sign off because they've cut LOA? Honestly?

If so then go to the Admin Office and do it. If not then man the **** up and stop whining that you've lost your cushy little bonus on top of the decent wages you already get paid.
Treat people the way you'd like to be treated ring any bells with you poxy dog ?

Treat people with respect and be honest with them and they accept pain now for bread and butter next year, with jam soon after.

Treat people like shit and they tend to get miffed and leave
 
#14
Tell you what, I would happily swap my UK based job for a Germany based one even if they cut LOA to £0 - it is still cheaper to live in Germany than the UK.
 
#15
I've been in 30 years, it's just same old, same old. The wheel keeps turning. It will be a bit tougher for a while, people will adapt to changes in pay, manning will change, pay will change and so we go on. If any one has fairly recently joined and they stick around for the next 20 years I imagine they'll be posting on whatever passes for the tinterweb in them days, that it's same old same old.

Any way, me dinners ready, I'm just off for my roadkill frickadella with old potatoes scavved from the field behind my tumbledown pad.

Impecuniously Yours

BL
 
#16
Treat people with respect and be honest with them and they accept pain now for bread and butter next year, with jam soon after.
By the time that the day of 'jam tomorrow' arrives, we'll have about seven people left in Germany and everyone will be living on their salary alone in UK super garrisons. LOA's a nice little bonus on top of that salary that you get for living in a much nicer country than the UK (generally) which is also (usually) cheaper so that you can still buy Hovis and Heinz instead of German brands.

Anyone who signs off because they're losing LOA is either very confident in themselves or an utter fool right now. But I bet there's not many civvie companies offering the same kind of entitlements and bonuses that the Army does.
 
#17
LOA reductions alone may not cause many to bin it, atleast not until propects of alternative employment improve. But that presumptuous attitude is what is allowing the politicos and sybils to squeeze a bit more out of the brass, who in turn want to hang on a bit longer and get one more rung on the ladder at the expense of those below who, when you remove the spin and chaff, have been screwed.

It's the cumulative effect of the allowance cuts on top of slashing equipment, structures, training, infrastructure and TACOS that one might want to consider in the whole (and the politicos hope you don't). LOA, disturbance and home to duty are the big muscle degradation of the allowances piece - which will likely cause a midium term decline in troops willingness to serve in Germany, particulary as the withdrawal plans mean that the Garrison facilities and optional schemes will start losing investment (MOD schools, fuel and light etc etc). Allowance cuts combined with pay freeze, child benefit rules, changes to the annual taxation allowances, current and future pension regulations and massive reductions on accommodation programmes means that our troops are being hit on an unprecedented scale. And we can spin it as short term with gold around the corner, but lets not forget that pay changes for current personnel not only have an immediate impact but also reduce future pension income. What has been announced appears only to be part of it - the treasury is after more because SDSR maths fall short of the mission, so stand by for more austerity measures as the planning round evolves. It's deemed fit for public consumption if the politicos emphasise that operations are not affected, but the price is that the man (or women) in the Army of 2015 will be renumerated less and living in crap accomadation. Ops will be much reduced, not through mission success or a tempo pause, but because we will by then be trained less and held at lower readiness. If the economy has improved by 2015, those with an ounce of intelligence might have worked it out and depart graciously. And in all this, it is the Army that stands to get hit harder by what is being taken away with SDSR (and son of SDSR). The Army's policy of accompanied service means that cuts to LOA, home to duty and disturbance allowances have a disproportionate impact on Tommy as opposed to Jack and Biggles. So the other services may have lost their Carriers, Harriers and Nimrod, but the Army in saving capbadges (purely a political saving) has seen it's people hit in the wallet hardest. But it's OK - because as the review teams constantly justify, tough times means that we are only being bought into line with our civilian counterparts, who right now are selflessly organising themselves into trained formations and preparing to kiss their familes goodbye and put themselves in harms way. This way no renumeration or differential was ever needed, between the squaddie and the chap who pushes advertising space or works in Tesco!
 
#19
Firstly to Jimmy's best Mate, you don't go to the Admin Office to sign off, you log on to JPA you clown (Self Service). I have now completed 23 years and with the way our careers are currently managed, ie: most things put on hold until SDSR an the current allowance cuts and 2 yr pay freeze. Not forgetting how many actually noticed their accommodation charges sneaked up in December then the current situation sucks. I have lost almost £700 a month since July 10. My lump sum will increase by £500 over the next 3 years so what the **** is the point anymore. I have now signed off and trust me there will be many more following. the Government have****ed up again just like they did in the 90's, experience left and was made redundant. Look at the Nimrod situation and as not many know the panther which is now being scrapped, (millions Lost)
 
#20
LOA reductions alone may not cause many to bin it, atleast not until propects of alternative employment improve. But that presumptuous attitude is what is allowing the politicos and sybils to squeeze a bit more out of the brass, who in turn want to hang on a bit longer and get one more rung on the ladder at the expense of those below who, when you remove the spin and chaff, have been screwed.

It's the cumulative effect of the allowance cuts on top of slashing equipment, structures, training, infrastructure and TACOS that one might want to consider in the whole (and the politicos hope you don't). LOA, disturbance and home to duty are the big muscle degradation of the allowances piece - which will likely cause a midium term decline in troops willingness to serve in Germany, particulary as the withdrawal plans mean that the Garrison facilities and optional schemes will start losing investment (MOD schools, fuel and light etc etc). Allowance cuts combined with pay freeze, child benefit rules, changes to the annual taxation allowances, current and future pension regulations and massive reductions on accommodation programmes means that our troops are being hit on an unprecedented scale. And we can spin it as short term with gold around the corner, but lets not forget that pay changes for current personnel not only have an immediate impact but also reduce future pension income. What has been announced appears only to be part of it - the treasury is after more because SDSR maths fall short of the mission, so stand by for more austerity measures as the planning round evolves. It's deemed fit for public consumption if the politicos emphasise that operations are not affected, but the price is that the man (or women) in the Army of 2015 will be renumerated less and living in crap accomadation. Ops will be much reduced, not through mission success or a tempo pause, but because we will by then be trained less and held at lower readiness. If the economy has improved by 2015, those with an ounce of intelligence might have worked it out and depart graciously. And in all this, it is the Army that stands to get hit harder by what is being taken away with SDSR (and son of SDSR). The Army's policy of accompanied service means that cuts to LOA, home to duty and disturbance allowances have a disproportionate impact on Tommy as opposed to Jack and Biggles. So the other services may have lost their Carriers, Harriers and Nimrod, but the Army in saving capbadges (purely a political saving) has seen it's people hit in the wallet hardest. But it's OK - because as the review teams constantly justify, tough times means that we are only being bought into line with our civilian counterparts, who right now are selflessly organising themselves into trained formations and preparing to kiss their familes goodbye and put themselves in harms way. This way no renumeration or differential was ever needed, between the squaddie and the chap who pushes advertising space or works in Tesco!
That sir, is a superbly well put, and thought out piece. My hat is off to you.
 

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