LOA Reduction

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Danny_Dravot, Apr 28, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. LOA for BFG is about to be reduced by up to 20%.

    This is an outrage, but before the UK warriors start the cliched arguements against LOA, a few things to remember:

    1. Spouses salries are pitiful overseas, even the good jobs earn a little over €1100 (£750pcm), I know LOA isn't designed to compensate spouses incomes, but its a considerable step down from £20K a yr to £9K!

    2. Everyday items eg. newspapers are virtually double UK price, eg. times €2.20, GQ/FHM €6.50.

    3. Whilst cars are cheaper to buy because they are tax free, running costs (excl petrol) are much higher. They are only a few authorised insurance companies due to BFG regulations (eg all big UK companies are invlaid, Tescos, Direct Line etc). Euro headlights, and as from this yr winter tyres are mandatory, total cost of over €1000.

    4. Banking is far more expensive. To withdraw cash from a UK account costs around £4 per time, german banks charge whether you're in credit or not.

    5. Telephones and internet are not only expensive, but the service is very poor. Plus schemes such as free minutes are invalid for UK based friends and family.

    6. Whilst Booze and Smokes are generally much cheaper - great if you smoke and drink. I do neither!

    7. The arguement being used to reduce LOA stems from less people using baby sitters than the last time the survey was completed. A nonsensical arguement.

    The overall message is, if you're nominated for the LOA survey, take it seriously and remember to add anything that you may feel is relevant.
    Comments welcomed, particularly from the snr management who are driving this.
     
  2. I agree. Having seen the propaganda spread by the voice of the MOD in Germany (aka Sixth Sense) it seems that 20% of LOA is attributable to child care. Absolute ARRSE! This has got 'cost cutting' all over it and it's a shame those who hold the purse strings haven't got the balls to say so!
     
  3. Roger.

    Like 6th sense is ever going to publish anything remotely controversial - full of wet thank you letters etc!

    It was the same when they changed the new car rules, I know of 5 people (all Snrs/offrs) that wrote to that high quality paper exclaiming outrage.

    Not one was published.

    Instead, its full of pictures of our favourite Clive Dunn lookalike handing out large, comedy, oversized cheques to somebody or other!
     
  4. The chiefs would not have got away with cutting the equivalent of LOA for uncivil servants if they were not planning to cut LOA for the Army. :x

    Of course its a cost cutting measure :evil:

    Glad I'm now back in the UK :D
     
  5. Maybe its a long term plan to soften the blow for when the announcement is made to withdraw tps from Germany?
     
  6. Or his wife!!!! :wink:
     

  7. Is that a withdrawl by PVR?
     
  8. LOA for BFG is about to be reduced by up to 20%.

    This is an outrage, but before the UK warriors start the cliched arguements against LOA, a few things to remember:

    1. Spouses salries are pitiful overseas, even the good jobs earn a little over €1100 (£750pcm), I know LOA isn't designed to compensate spouses incomes, but its a considerable step down from £20K a yr to £9K!

    Depends on the wifeys job really but i've known wives to earn more than hubby whilst in BFG.

    2. Everyday items eg. newspapers are virtually double UK price, eg. times €2.20, GQ/FHM €6.50.

    Yes papers cost more but that's because you are paying transportation costs which is already factored into the LOA system. If you really need FHM then get a subscription it's cheaper and is delivered to BFPO adresses at no extra cost

    3. Whilst cars are cheaper to buy because they are tax free, running costs (excl petrol) are much higher. They are only a few authorised insurance companies due to BFG regulations (eg all big UK companies are invlaid, Tescos, Direct Line etc). Euro headlights, and as from this yr winter tyres are mandatory, total cost of over €1000.

    Insurance is only high if you have no no claims and a flash car. You don't buy new headlights every month. If you bought new it would have come with european lamps. If you bought localy it will have them already. Nobody said you have to have a car. Albingia were always competitivly priced. Which £1000 winter tyres are you buying? 22inch ones for a Ferrari

    4. Banking is far more expensive. To withdraw cash from a UK account costs around £4 per time, german banks charge whether you're in credit or not.

    Would make sense to have a german account and have an allotment to your UK account. Plenty of Cash machines in the UK charge for withdrawals also.

    5. Telephones and internet are not only expensive, but the service is very poor. Plus schemes such as free minutes are invalid for UK based friends and family.

    Subscribe to the call back services they're cheap as chips and will work on mobiles as well. The internet is a luxury really and doesn't factor into LOA

    6. Whilst Booze and Smokes are generally much cheaper - great if you smoke and drink. I do neither!

    Not the only duty free items though are they.

    7. The arguement being used to reduce LOA stems from less people using baby sitters than the last time the survey was completed. A nonsensical arguement.

    I very much doubt that is the reason for the proposed reduction in LOA

    The overall message is, if you're nominated for the LOA survey, take it seriously and remember to add anything that you may feel is relevant.
    Comments welcomed, particularly from the snr management who are driving this.

    Good advice but year after year knobheads fill the form in saying it pays for their new car etc

    I always found it cheaper to live in BFG than in the UK. Have you never noticed that all the tax free cars dissapear not long after a unit is posted back to the UK because some of the owners couldn't afford to run them. How many squaddies moonlight to driving or security agencies to supliment their income when in the UK. Sorry but you'll find soldiers are financialy worse off when posted in the UK. It still a raw deal when allowances get reduced but it's not the first time it's happened. I beleive the singlies won't have their LOA reduced as their families etc are in the UK.
     
  9. 1. I'd love to know what "Wifey's Jobs" earn more than their husbands? Maybe if you're a lance jack and you're wife is a UKBC lawyer then maybe, but how many people is that?

    2. You missed the point ref newspapers. That was one example of many where everyday items are far more expensive in BFG than UK. I understand the fundementals of distribution costs etc. That is exactly the reason of LOA, to offset the additional cost of the same items.

    3. Banking. Again you miss the point. The idea of a Geman account with a UK allotment is fine, or should I say was fine maybe about 30 years ago when the average Offr/Soldier had neither a mortgage, car loan, credit card / debit card. I would argue that all are essential now, and german banks offer limited facilities. EG. if you have a mortgage and you rate goes up, it can take upto 3 months to change your allotment, I would argue that most people (less the BFG lifers/married to German nationals) have the majority of the salary paid into a UK account with an allotment to a German account.

    4. Good advice regarding call back service - but what is it? Call the internet a luxury - get real!

    5. Agreed Booze and Tabs are not the only duty free items, but the feature heavily on the LOA review, cosmetics, perfumes etc do not.

    6. Ref babysitting - this is a NODUFF reason being lamented for proposed reductions - check last weeks 6th sense. Apparently people use less baby sitters now, so we don't need as much LOA to pay them???

    7. Cars. You are out of touch my friend. Very few cars come with euro-lights, even prestige marques like Merc, euro lights are an additional extra. a 1.4 1998 fiesta is not prestige, yet the insurance is twice UK rate. Lights and tyres around €1000 = £600, a reasonable price.

    8. LOA is not a question of supplementing your income, its there to make up the extra expense of everday items when posted abroad. Currently, i believe its the right level.
     
  10. Weak. I drink heavily and I want to go back as it's f*ck*ng expensive over in UK - three pounds for a beer. Need LOA to live here.

    Did a course as junior bloke on course in UK when still based in BFG. On 70% LOA and LSSA Middle rate (OK, not that much of a crow) - best paid bloke on the course by a hefty ransom.
     
  11. Agreed that spouses are paid less than in the the UK, but they do not pay tax (which is quite high in UK under successive tax rising tory and lab govts)

    I comfortably saved 000s last 2 years while in BFG and bought a new car.

    Life in BFG is great and the money almost takes the proverbial. it is far, far cheaper than UK. Try the german shops if NAAFI aint your thing.
     
  12. Agreed, quality of life is generally better in BFG - I take it your happy to lose the LOA then?
     
  13. sorry but if you think its expensive to live in germany either a) you havent been based in the uk for a long time or b)you only shop and deal with bfg-approved establishments such as the naafi, natocars etc. get out and use the german facilities more. No sensible person pays for euro headlights on a new car, it is easy for spouses to earn more than husbands unless your wife can only rotate between naafi cleaner/mess cleaner/school cleaner, internet costs arent massively differnet, you just dont have as many choices of provider.


    you could always put in a pref posting for catterick.
     
  14. Nobody is happy losing money I certainly know I don't like it but the replies are there to put it in perspective for you. Your initial post made it seem as if you would now be on the poverty line with the reduction in loa wheras we know better. I really do hope the reduction if at all is miniscule so it doesn't leave anyone out of pocket.
     
  15. I think alot of people are missing the point big time!

    LOA is not an enhancement or reward for living overseas.

    Its to serve the additional costs of the SAME items that you can be expected to buy when overseas, the extra cost as result of having to export them etc.

    I've been in BFG long enough to acknowledge that the quality of life etc is better in BFG than UK.

    However, certain items are far more expensive than in UK. The thread of the arguement was based on the cuts to LOA when living in BFG hasn't got 20% cheaper.

    EG, today i bought a paper €5.10, the same paper is £1 in UK.

    Its easy to quote that x is cheaper than y in BFG and, shop at Markthof not NAAFI etc, I know all of this already. The initial thread was to highlight that LOA is GOING to be cut by 20% - unjustified.

    I'm still intrigued to know where Spouses can earn more than husbands - answers below please!