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Livingston

#1
Not going into the whole saga of Ken's remarks to a journalist - they deserve each other - but something he said in connection with his outburst I do find interesting
At a meeting of the assembly, Mr Livingstone defended his behaviour by claiming that Associated Newspapers, publishers of the Evening Standard and the Daily Mail, had conducted a hate campaign against him ever since his time as the Left-wing leader of the Greater London Council in the 1980s.

With his voice shaking, Mr Livingstone said: "If I could, in anything I say, relieve any pain anyone feels, I would not hesitate to do it. But it would require me to be a liar.

"I could apologise but why should I say words I do not believe in my heart? Therefore I cannot. If that is something people find they cannot accept, I am sorry, but this is how I feel after nearly a quarter of a century of their behaviour and tactics."


He was particularly critical of the Daily Mail, which he also accused of promoting "unremitting bigotry, hatred and prejudice" against various ethnic minority groups over the last 100 years.
In these days of duplicitious dealing, it is refreshing to read something where the guy says what he means rather than some mealy mouthed p.c. gibberish.[/b]
 
#2
Quite agree with his remarks about that horrible little rag - The Daily Mail!! Every time I have the misfortune to see a copy I am amazed at some of the unpleasantness within the articles.
 
#3
The fact that he hates the mail or the evening standard is not the point. He should have been able to control himself and not made outrageous comments (but then again his above the law isnt he? :roll: )

The guy is a snivelling champagne socialist and despite him not feeling that an appology would be approriate or that he wouldnt mean it, sometimes ken, we have to get over our own importance and come back to the real world. Face it what you said was offensive and as such you should appologise.

rant over :D

A_S
 
#4
I'm with Old Red Cap! Nice to see a poli speaking his mind and not what the PR man says.

The probelm is he has attcked a journo (fair do's) by using a racial slur (not-very good) to be blunt I think he is Fcuked.

Sad cos he has been great for London and 5th column within the Labour Party.
 
#5
I detest Ken Livingstone and his (pro-IRA) politics, but I do admire him for refusing to make an insincere apology. How many politicians have used the 'S' word to save their neck when they blatently haven't meant it? The whole sorry saga is just a typical PC feeding frenzy, and as usual with these things I'll bet nobody is really even offended by what was actually said.

The real insult to the memories of the Camp victims comes from politicians of all sides who would use a row like this to score cheap political points.
 
#6
"You can't expect to work for the Daily Mail group and have the rest of society treat you with respect and as if you're a useful part of society. You are not." Ken Livingstone, London mayor and former restaurant critic for the London Evening Standard's ES magazine, part of the Daily Mail group.
 
#7
Any Londoners here seen that free newspaper, called "The Londoner" or something like that which carries no advertising and is exclusively funded at taxpayer's expense and is simply a pro-Ken propaganda rag of the worst type?
 
#8
I listen to the actual tape of the conversation on Jerremy Vines program today. The reporter was being inquisitive only not demanding anything unusual and red ken just loist it and insulted the reporter.

It doesn't matter what newspaper he works for Ken should have kept his mouth shut and reverted to the "No Comment" option and put the phone down. He's twit and should apologise for his comments. In real terms if the reporter felt like it Red Ken could end up in court on racial charges (good thing IMHO)

JJ
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#9
Perhaps Ken was refering to Concentration camp Guards in the context of the South African Campaign where Concentration camps were effectively invented by the British, or their use by the Germans in West Africa where tens of thousands of African bushmen were worked to death. Or perhaps he was referring to it in the context of the millions of non-jews such as Russian prisoners, Gypsies, homosexuals or politcal prisoners who died in the Camps.

The Jewish populations of Europe were devastated by the actions of the Nazis, but since then the history books have been progressively refined to erase non-Jewish victims.

I too dislike Ken Livingstone's politics intensely, but for once I admire his stance. What he said was (and I am working from newspapers, not having heard the broadcast) not anti-semitic, it was anti intrusive reporter. Not perhaps the best thought out riposte, but not a crime (either real or imagined)
 
#10
Red Ken can't expect to have it both ways. He's a high-profile politician. As such, he should be able to cope with media inquiries without resorting to insults. If he's incapable of doing that, he's unfit to be a leader. Nor, in a democratic society, can he pick and choose which papers to speak to. Much as I, like others here, dislike the DM's brand of journalism, if politicians go down that road, it's the start of the kind of censorship our oppos have given their lives to prevent as part of the defence of freedom-of-speech.
 
#11
Sorry FTB. Ken was bang out of order on this one. I heard the tapes on the telly last night. Ken said something vaguely daft, the journo pointed out he was Jewish and took offence at the comment and then Ken let rip.

Absolutely no excuse for that. He had the opportunity to back down with good grace and instead, not only blew it but dug himself a deeper hole.

W*4£er.
 
#12
flash_to_bang said:
Perhaps Ken was refering to Concentration camp Guards in the context of the South African Campaign where Concentration camps were effectively invented by the British, or their use by the Germans in West Africa where tens of thousands of African bushmen were worked to death. Or perhaps he was referring to it in the context of the millions of non-jews such as Russian prisoners, Gypsies, homosexuals or politcal prisoners who died in the Camps.

The Jewish populations of Europe were devastated by the actions of the Nazis, but since then the history books have been progressively refined to erase non-Jewish victims.
what the f*ck are you on! go to Belsan or Aushwitz, where has the non-jewish part of the death toll been erased.

as we have seen on urban75 and the Guardian, it ain't racist anymore if its against a jew!
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#13
Plastic Yank said:
flash_to_bang said:
Perhaps Ken was refering to Concentration camp Guards in the context of the South African Campaign quote]

what the f*ck are you on! go to Belsan or Aushwitz, where has the non-jewish part of the death toll been erased.

as we have seen on urban75 and the Guardian, it ain't racist anymore if its against a jew!
You misinterpret me-and I have been to Belsen several times. Perhaps it is duty of the decendants of other persecuted groups to speak more vocivorously on behalf of their dead-in the silence the only voice becomes the loudest.

If Ken Livingstone feels that his comments were justified (and only he can make that decision) then he would be wrong to back down now and grovel. We espouse moral courage-and that is subjective-you stand for what you believe to be right-even if you happen to be wrong
 
#14
ok, point taken, but

if a man is talking b*llocks, not only do i not have to agree with him, but i certainly do not have to respect him for it.

by all means, freedom of speech and expression i will defend, and i would defend Ken's utter b*llocks (which, let's be honest, is most of what he says) but as an adult, you should know when you've been wrong and be big enough to admit it.

I have no problem with apologies from politico's, if its honest and justified. march in, admit you fecked up and write out the cheque to the ABF (or equivilant civy org).

Apologies along the B*Liar vein; for everything in the past that you have no control over, is useless and pedantic.

I would have respected Ken if he said "ok, wrong call, bit drunk and annoyed with journo, shouldn't have said it". That would have been fine, and probably have garnered some support from the public who viewed journo's only slightly higher on the evolutionary scale then politico's.
 
#16
I'm not Ken's greatest fan (understatement), but the tapes and transcripts people have heard are only part of the exchange - I don't know the rest but there is certainly no hello/goodbye.

Personally, this seems to be a Voltaire moment (attributed to others elsewhere) - in that "I disapprove of what he says, but I will defend to the death his right to say it".

To put it in context, drink had been taken (at a homophiliac party to mark a homophile event), and someone working for an avowedly anti-Ken, anti-Homo publication interrupted him for a quote. He let rip in a non-PC manner (general applause for that at least) at his perceived persecutors' perceived quasi-Nazi intentions.

I've never liked the guy, nor many of his associates - but he does stand up and speak out. so let the voters can judge. Who prefers the continual lack of candour of Blairism ???.
 
#17
Ken ‘wish I was as steely as Rudy Giuliani’ Livingstone insulted the journo (huck spit) at/after a party to celebrate the twentieth anniversary of Chris Smith MP coming out the closet. A party to celebrate the twentieth anni…………. God help us! Hallmark will be doing cards for such anniversaries next!

Livingstone has shown that he is unfit to hold an office bankrolled by the public. There are times when a politician, same as the rest of us, can get wound up to the point of getting punchy (step forward Two Chins Two Jags) but in dealing with an unwelcome journo, a simple ‘no comment’ would suffice. Livingstone used to be a journo on the Evening Standard. Hello!

Livingstone is a snivelling hypocritical vacuous champagne socialist and belongs in Bernoulli’s mass grave.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...ml&sSheet=/portal/2005/02/15/ixportaltop.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...54AVCBQYJVC?xml=/news/2005/02/15/ukensaid.xml
 
#18
#19
I invite you to read my reply - link no good, but I've heard 'allegedly' full playback & transcript - neither of which have hello/introduction or any goodbye(s).

Ken's lashing out a bit, but fair do's - we all have our moments.

He courts publicity and is not afraid to comment - why else would ES cold call him after such an event?. This is the paper that tried to make Ken out as an attempted murderer - of his wife & unborn during a party.

I would urge those who are giving it the big 'anti-Jewish' tag take a step back and absorb what's been published, rather than climb on the bandwagon.

The fact is that I have stated I don't like the guy, nor with whom he associates, and it simply cannot be read as 'Whiffler agrees with him and likes his mates'. It's just that everyone is entitled to his say, so long as what he says isn't illegal.

This is still England, and a free country. Anyone that disagrees with that can go forth at a rate of knots and attempt numerous improbable sexula/scatalogical manoevres.

I've never voted for him (had the chance 20 or so years ago) - and never will. I'll also never vote for Piers Moron (who also writes for ES), who is unworthy of my vote and has also not broken the law. Who's going to be first to accuse me of liking him too?.

Rant over :oops:, Speckled Hen calls :p
 
#20
I love the bit about "not working for a paper that has a history of supporting fascism."

don't ya love lefties, such wit, such insight.

so when the Guardian and the Indie and the New Statesman and the British Labour Party were supporting Uncle Joe & Uncle Nikki and their extermination of anything that wasn't Bolshevik (and even some things that were), that was ok!!

Ken, dotcha love 'em. IRA good, Contras bad! Invasion/Liberation of Afghanistan by Soviets good! Invasion/Liberation of Afghanistan by Americans bad!

Fascist killing homo's, gypsies, communist bad! Fascist killing jews, not so bad!
 

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