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Light Division - Small/Large or Large/Large?

#1
I thought that FAS left us with a Light Division forced from the LI (3 battalions) and the RGJ (2 battalions)

I note that the Colonel of the D&Ds thinks differently:
Already plans are being made to bring the four Regiments involved: ourselves; the Gloucester element (together making one Battalion), The Light Infantry (two Battalions), and the Royal Green Jackets (two Battalions), into one new five Battalion Regiment. Although no decisions have yet been made the Army board have already indicated that the historic links of the past Regiments must be maintained. I must emphasize that nothing has yet been formally agreed but this is what we are all amicably working towards.
See here
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
It would be a pity to merge 2 good regiments with seperate threads although our paths crossed many times and we were both born of the same wartime nececessity the RGJ does things differently. This does not stop divisional concentrations such as bugle comps etc. The big regt could remain as 2 or more seperate regiments with a div hq replacing both RHQ's if neccesarry. This seems to be the way the oatmeal savages are dealing with it. The real old RHQ/museum types can remain, why have a big one unless there have been so many amalgs already such as LI & RGJ. If things havent changed in the last 3 years the museums of the 2 amalgamated regts are side by side in the Old peninsular Bks HQ block and could remain rather than make a 3rd. As for the "Rifles" Admittedly it is a fitting title but lacks colour and with all the septics forming Arrmy div light gives the others an original to set standards. I always liked the rank Rifleman but the rifles is a bit 1970's TV Royal Wessex remember? Admittedly with the ATR trg team from Lt Div having RIR staff and recruits it makes it a very big regt. Not that there arent enough paddies in the Div already. I really dont know what to make of it and although its been known to be a div aim in the long term which has been assisted with Seniors crosspostings I'm not sure I like postman pat hats, black buttons and a boy scout buckle and thats just on No2 dress.
Well rant over and although I am not opposed to an admin merger I feel the two regts should be distinct. Mind you we would be able to ship the geordies off to mess with the cockneys minds now! The next logical move is to reforma 3rd RGJ Bn from some poor souls who like strolling around for drill. Break out the Green Puttees Sjt Major he just called me a green jacket!
 
#7
Mention of the Royal Wessex and that 1970s TV series has set me wondering whether the regiments of the old Wessex Brigade have been split between PWRR and LI precisely to stop the creation of a new regiment of that name! Could it be that the Army Board were concerned that recruiting to such a regiment might be confined to a few old thespians? In fact a more likely explanation is that the Royal Hampshires defected to the Queen's Division in the early 1990s, so that when the fickle finger of amalgamation pointed again to central southern England in 2004 there was not the critical mass left to form even a small large regiment. The 'Appy 'Amps of course managed to keep their county name (albeit in brackets) in the full title of the new regiment. The way in which the Colonel of the D&D describes the large large regiment as being formed of four existing regiments might suggest that he is hoping to pull a similar stunt. Somehow I don't think The Rifles (Devonshire and Dorset, Light Infantry, Gloucestershire and Royal Greenjackets) is likely to find its way into the Army List.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#8
Also of concern in amalgamating the two Lt Div regiments is what to do about colours, the jackets wont have them and the Light workk shy wont give them up!
I suspect that would cause more grief than it is worth.
 
#9
I have to admit I thought I was hearing things when Hoon broke this one in Parliament a while back. I'm all for getting an additional battalion back in the Light Div. but what a peculiar way to do it!! There are no obvious links between the Division and the Glosters and the geographical connection is pretty weak. And what incidentallly is "the Gloucester componment" supposed to be when it's at home? Surely the RGBW have been in existence long enought now to have formed a Regimental identity for themselves and breaking that up just to form another Bn. in some unlikely hybrid regiment is bizarre to say the least. BTW, if the LI are to be allowed to recruit in the old Glosters area is that likely to provide enough recruits to fill a whole new battalion ? As for calling the new Regt. "The Rifles". Well I'm all for the name to be perpetuated but as only two -fifthes of the regiment will have any direct historical claim to the title it sounds a bit incongruos to say the least, like calling a meat pie an Aberdeen Angus because its 20% beef! I'm sorrybut far better if the LI just get the manpower and theres no more talk of preserving regimental identity for the RGBW "Gloster component" They'll just haveto disappear like a lot of other fine old regiments.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#10
Very good. now if they would get on with it and we can get back to the serious matter of teaching how to get to the Naafi first at 140 ppm.
 
#11
Jaeger

Dont forget the Gloster element will initially join onto the Devon and Dorsets prior to becoming LI. As for the the geographical situation for recruiting it means the 'Rifle Regiment' (as I've heard) will recruit from Cornwall all the way up to Shropshire, including Devon, Dorset, Somerset, Bristol, Gloucestershire, Herefordshire in a large area mass, we will then have Ox and Bucks, London, Birmingham, Merseyside, South Yorkshire and Durham, and anywhere I have missed. I reckon it'll give us the largest recruiting area in the UK.


Semper fidelis
 
#12
As I understand it, there is a plan to work toward a a single 5Bn Regt but not as part of FAS/FIS. The letter that came round to the Green Jackets was along the lines of: interpostings will continue across the Division but no specific plans for a single Regiment are in the pipe line - it remains a future objective but not this time round.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
Would 5 bns make it a comparable size to the new Scottish Regt. To be honest as long as regtl hq work can be kept to a minimum then there is no need for a single reg. This would leave them with some semblance of ownership and as the ITC has a Lt Div team then why not have Jock/PWRR/Angle iron etc teams. Give them the dignity they deserve and would also go back slightly to the old regtl/div depot days but on a smaller scale.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
Jaeger said:
I have to admit I thought I was hearing things when Hoon broke this one in Parliament a while back. I'm all for getting an additional battalion back in the Light Div. but what a peculiar way to do it!! There are no obvious links between the Division and the Glosters and the geographical connection is pretty weak. And what incidentallly is "the Gloucester componment" supposed to be when it's at home? Surely the RGBW have been in existence long enought now to have formed a Regimental identity for themselves and breaking that up just to form another Bn. in some unlikely hybrid regiment is bizarre to say the least. BTW, if the LI are to be allowed to recruit in the old Glosters area is that likely to provide enough recruits to fill a whole new battalion ? As for calling the new Regt. "The Rifles". Well I'm all for the name to be perpetuated but as only two -fifthes of the regiment will have any direct historical claim to the title it sounds a bit incongruos to say the least, like calling a meat pie an Aberdeen Angus because its 20% beef! I'm sorrybut far better if the LI just get the manpower and theres no more talk of preserving regimental identity for the RGBW "Gloster component" They'll just haveto disappear like a lot of other fine old regiments.
CGS stated that the trdition of converting regiments to Light Infantry was being continued. Now if you go back to the 32nd of Foot Queen Victoria bestowed it for defence of Lucknow. I dont know if the M4 rifles have had any curry house riots recently but it seems to me they should be grateful as this is an honour that the Sovreign normally only rewards regiments for extreme courage. Getting in on the Cheap? I personally dont think so but as an Halfa I am exceedingly lucky and perhaps the new lads should take the opportunities offered.
 
#15
Ugly,

You'll be glad to hear that each Div of Inf is represented at ITC(C) with its own coy (R IRISH are in with the Light Div) with a clear divisional focus.

Can anyone shed any light on how successful it has been? - I know that the GUARDS and PARA coys are considered successful.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
Thanks for that I am pleased to know that the div lads get something during training. Just recieved my first copy of the Silver Bugle since leaving in 88. I saw that the Div had a team and the write up speaks very well of the recruits learning the regimental ways and going to Bns as well trained and regimentally aware soldiers. I cannot for the life of me see the sense in lumping every recruit together regardless of corps or cap badge. You need an identity and at shorncliffe althought Corunna Coy was Lt & Scottish Divs and we had to stroll around at 120 ppm we stood out and were aware of the difference. Unlike Waterloo coy we wernt pig headed wooden tops about our superioity tyhat came at Depot later. I felt that my intake lost out as Shrewsbury stopped taking adults and we were sent to Winchester. We didnt drop into a wk 18 pln either but were mixed with under age ex junior riflemen and became a bit of a demo pln. 8 Weeks trg and off to Bn where I had to keep my gob shut about depot. Being the youngest cornishman in C Coy meant I got all the presenting the pasty jobs to Brigadiers etc. I had to keep my gob shut too as I was born in Lancs & only spent 7 years in cornwall.
 
#17
All very interesting this but I'm still baffled! How on earth are they going to separate the sodding "Gloster component" from the rest of the RGBW and then merge them with the Devon & Doughnuts for F**ks sake? Surely they've welded together pretty tightly by now? Is it going to be a case of saying to young private soldiers and J/NCO's " Right, you were born in Cheltenham (Or wherever) now F**k off to the D&D's and while you're about it start marching quicker ! " I just don't get it. On another point what about calling any future amalgamated 5 Bn. Light regiment " The Light Brigade", those of you who know your Regimenat history will note the historical link to the Peninsula, it has "Light" in it to please the 'Arfers and "Brigade" to please the Jackets . There'll be no pleasing the Worzels though!! :lol:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
There is a simple answer and Gizmond had it right I believe. The current senior Bn is the 1st with 13th of foot Prince Alberts Somersets being senior in the list. When the 1st Bn was disbanded under options for change the 2nd & 3rd renumbered upwards for seniority. Most troops were given the choice of which Bn to go to and this for a lot of lads was based on postings, promotion opportunities and the chance to servr with mates from Depot days or not! So when you become LI you will automatically become 1st Bn due to seniority in the Army list.
When the Sovreigns honour is bestowed the regt chosen is to clothe, drill and equip as Light Infantry. This does not preclude continuance of traditions from the past. The Duke of Cornwalls brought with them the red backing, Bishop Trelawney and One and All. The Somersets brought Jellalabad and although these 2 regts were the senior pair they were amalgamated in the late 50's due to manning issues. The SCLI became the 1st Bn the Light Infantry (somerset and Cornwall) the Light Infantry Brigade untill the 4th Bn (Durhams) were laid up and county titles were dropped. Now there was a period right through to the 80's when if you were west country then 1st Bn was the 1st choice and many crossposted officers were amazed at the strength of Westcountry life in CCoy. Especially if coming from the 3rd Bn. So have a good long think about opportunities, postings, and what traditions you would like to bring with you. This will make Salamanca day odd unless the D&D and Glos fought there? Even us pasties wore white roses on Minden day a KOYLI tradition.
 
#19
Just a quick note...... I know it dosn't completly fit in here, but it is revelvent (just) Does anyone know when the Cadets will re-badge?

Im Ex 1st Light, also Ex D&D and now going to be Light again.... :)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
Tango34_UK said:
Just a quick note...... I know it dosn't completly fit in here, but it is revelvent (just) Does anyone know when the Cadets will re-badge?

Im Ex 1st Light, also Ex D&D and now going to be Light again.... :)
Do they need to if administration deems it unnecessary, many cadet units when I was a boy had obscure badges and names. Even the Truro Cathedral School cadets kept the DCLI cap badge and the whole of the county kept the DCLI shoulder title!
 

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