Lies, damn lies, and the Phoenix Think Tank

#1
Hitler famously said, that if you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it, people will eventually assume it must be the truth, as no one would dare to keep telling such an outrageous lie.

Well, no one can say that the PTT and its associated websites are not studious advocates of the 'Big Lie', but alas, someone has finally expended to time and resources to finally expose their catalogue of lies, half truths and outright defamation's of the RAF.


Naval Aviation; Blogs and Think Tanks | Think Defence
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#2
Hitler famously said, that if you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it, people will eventually assume it must be the truth, as no one would dare to keep telling such an outrageous lie.

Well, no one can say that the PTT and its associated websites are not studious advocates of the 'Big Lie', but alas, someone has finally expended to time and resources to finally expose their catalogue of lies, half truths and outright defamation's of the RAF.


Naval Aviation; Blogs and Think Tanks | Think Defence
Read it earlier in the week, good blog post though, well done td - when will PTT just pack it in, seriously anyone with the faintest interest in military affairs cringes whenever they inflict yet another intellectually and academically retarded offering upon the blogosphere.
 
#3
Well, fancy that. Yet another blogger denigrating carrier-based air (and its proponents) even though it has enjoyed an unrivalled record during the past 60 years.
 
#4
Read it earlier in the week, good blog post though, well done td - when will PTT just pack it in, seriously anyone with the faintest interest in military affairs cringes whenever they inflict yet another intellectually and academically retarded offering upon the blogosphere.
Even worse than that, they're starting to piss off the very people what's left of the FAA will have to work with when CVF finally lumbers into view.
Although most Crabs will rib the FAA, by and large they hold them in high regard and respect. All that the PTT and its acolytes and now doing with their constant attempts to rubbish and character assassinate the RAF, (and their lies are getting traction in the media who assume the Ward® stamp of approval turns everything posted on the PTT into an unarguable 'truth'), is building up inter service resentment where none really existed.
 
#5
The esteemed members of the PTT do seem to peddle their own narrowminded views in regards to defence on top of making aggrivating claims especially in regards to the disbandment of the RAF a stupid idea IMHO

Brigadier Julian Thompson a person I do hold in high esteem seems to think that the army should disband its heavy artillery and tanks and revolve around a light infantry force. Of course He has direct experience of this being as he commanded 3 CDO in the Falklands and he did well without the desired external support. However if the Argentinians had used their 155mm and 35mm guns to better effect or actually used their Napalm launchers or their panhards with some form of combined opps then the situation could have been much different. The outcome was influenced just as much by the Argentinians inability or unwillingness to engage than it was for the own brilliance on our part.

Obviously we had the inteligence to combat the Argentinian weakness but enemies in the future may wel be much more competent. A light infantry force is probably deemed suitable for the conflict in Afghanistan but heaven help it if the enemy turns out to be mechanized ( obv in the futue not Afghanistan).
 
#6
DS,

How is this denigrating carrier aviation

Clearly, both the RAF and FAA have contributed significantly to operations since the end of the war, no one can doubt this.

The historical evidence leads to me the conclusion that land based and naval aviation are complimentary
Have you actually read the piece?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#7
Yep, I agree with meridian here, thinkdefence has never been anti-carrier, it is however anti the way the whole project has been managed, and certainly increasely anti-Sharkey and his "pug-in-a-handbag" researcher Alex Clarke. It has consistently attempted to be someway objective in it's analyses, as opposed to PTT which just produced articles based upon a delusional prejudice, vitriol and outright fabrication. FFS they make the Daily Star look like the bastion of high-journalistic standards. The RN and FAA deserve, and need, better, more articulate, more intelligent champions. PTT is like an aggressive autoimmune disease, mutating the body's cells and using them to attack its own self eventually destroying the patient.
 
#8
All gone a bit quite in here

That article is just a very slow and deliberate, almost gentle, complete and utter demolition of the PTT

Have you read the comments as well, very interesting
 
#9
I thought Geobbels said that not Hitler ?
 
#10
Correct Mon Colonel. The full quote goes like this:

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
-- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-194
 
#11

All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.


Mein Kampf, Adolph Hitler: p. 134
 
#12
If you look at old nazi newsreel you'll notice how Adolph always had his fingers crossed when making speeches
 
#13
However if the Argentinians had used their 155mm and 35mm guns to better effect or actually used their Napalm launchers or their panhards with some form of combined opps then the situation could have been much different. The outcome was influenced just as much by the Argentinians inability or unwillingness to engage than it was for the own brilliance on our part.
They did use Napalm... Goose Green. Could have destroyed an entire Company with it, certainly would have cremated a Plt. Dozy cnuts didn't arm it, set it, drop it from high enough what ever you do to a napalm can to make it go boom. Two cans were found on the ground after.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
Hitler famously said, that if you tell a big enough lie and keep repeating it, people will eventually assume it must be the truth, as no one would dare to keep telling such an outrageous lie.

]

I presume this is the basis for your posting style? You seem to be the master at this
 
#16
I'm almost afraid to rake over the ashes, but I just saw this on the now-defunct Phoenix site.

PhoenixThinkTank.org said:
N.B An opportunity exists for some investigative journalism into the conduct of a group known as “Think Defence”. It maybe discovered that the website is not as unbiased as it claims to be and has significant support and direction from various study and support groups of a specific service. It may become clear on closer inspection that the reader can identify a certain obsession with being more critical on some areas then others and as a group which always made it clear what we supported we feel after some of the overly aggressive and questionable tactics used against the PTT and some of its contributors that we have alerted you, the reader, to our opinion of that website and its editor(s). On the whole, we have enjoyed hearing the views and opinions of others across a broad spectrum of the defence community wither they agreed or disagreed with a PTT authors work. We also strongly advise a reader to show concern if information presented to them online, rather opinion or fact has an author hidden from identifying themselves. Constructive debate and criticism is essential not borderline defamation.
It's hidden at the bottom of the page, probably so that ThinkDefence won't see it. It is ironic that they see constructive debate and criticism as essential, as they tried to stifle any debate that did not agree with their skewed and somewhat myopic vision of things.
 

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