License to listen to the radio??? What is UK coming to?!

#2
Dontdreamit said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7833982.stm

The PRS are billing people for listening to music in public, even if previously purchased!

A hairdresser was fined £200 for listening to Radio 1 in the salon.
I assume that you are younger than 45 or so?

Some of us can remember having to pay for a radio license....

Litotes

(not me, but there was a radio license for many years)!
 
#3
It's been a law since the 1920s, all music played in public must be licensed, I think radio Lcenses are now defunct
 
#4
tropper66 said:
It's been a law since the 1920s, all music played in public must be licensed, I think radio Lcenses are now defunct
My blind grandmother died in 2004, and she had one, so I'm not sure about that.
 
#5
Its nothing new. They were/are suing Kwik Fit because employees were listening to the radio on the garage floor. Seemingly this is deemed as entertainment for the customers in the waiting room who can hear it, therefore a licence is needed to play the music. Its not a licence to play the radio for personal use, its a licence to broadcast it to an audience just like what pubs and clubs need. The fact that it is not the main reason people go to the business is beyond the common sense of these muppets.
 
#6
parapauk said:
tropper66 said:
It's been a law since the 1920s, all music played in public must be licensed, I think radio Lcenses are now defunct
My blind grandmother died in 2004, and she had one, so I'm not sure about that.
they are still going i think, i know someone who still has one, at least he said he had one :wink:
 
#7
Its our much idolised performers making sure they get their royalties

Public performance licence


Why you need a licence

Getting the right licence is a legal requirement. If you play recorded music or music videos in public, or broadcast them (or copy them in order to do so) in the UK, you will be infringing copyright unless you are appropriately licensed by PPL.
 
#8
Anyone playing music to the public must pay a fee to the PRS... This is not the same as a 'Wireless Licence'

It used to be the case that nobody could listen to a 'wireless' (radio) without being licenced to do so, however with the coming of the transistor and battery powered portable radios this law just became silly and unenforceable so now we are at the stage where we can listen to any radio transmission that is deemed to be 'broadcast' without a licence.

'Broadcast' includes Radio 2 etc as you would expect but also includes:
VOLMET messages
Notices to Airmen (and the maritime equivalent)
Radio amateur transmissions
and much more.

There is also a lot that you cannot listen to and of course a large ill-defined 'grey area' so the answer is listen away but dont 'broadcast' the fact.
 
#10
No doubt the BBC and their cohorts will be chasing all those from overseas that listen to the programmes over the internet which is provided by, oh yeah the BBC

HH
 
#11
hairyhandbag said:
No doubt the BBC and their cohorts will be chasing all those from overseas that listen to the programmes over the internet which is provided by, oh yeah the BBC

HH
Only the 'easy' targets who can't politically defend themselves,remember;that's the way with bullies....
 
#12
The PRS targeted my business - there's only two of here, in a small workshop, not a retail outlet - customers by can visit but must contact us first. Anyway, tt started off with an innocent phone call and then the questions started up with "do you have a radio", "how many people work on site", can the customers listen to the radio as well".

My business partner smelled a rat and refused to answer any more questions - we now have small personal radios with headphones so that only one person can listen to them and we tend to listen to radio 4 a lot more.... :wink: :wink: :wink:

I object to the so called artists getting paid umpteen times for their "work", particularly the likes of that tw*t McCartney - as if he needs the money. It daylight robbery and exactly the same as if you bought a saucepan only to be told you had to pay the designer again each time you use it!

:x :x :x :x :x :x :x

Robbing cnuts...

Interesting point though, since we stopped listening to the music stations so much we don't buy anywhere near as many CDs as we used to...

Rodney2q

Incidentally, the front man for the PRS is Fergal Sharkey, sh*te Oirish singer and failed front man for the Undertones - I suppose he does need the money though...
 
#13
However the radio stations have already paid the artists...

....so how can they charge a listener?

Surely it is only a matter of time until some legal eagle challenges this. If a recording artists releases a song into the public domain via radio (in an effort to increase sales) they must surely do so on the understanding that the public will actually listen to it??
 
#14
Why is the PRS being lumped together with government broadcast licensing? One is government, one is not – and never has been. 8O

Radio licensing came in with the establishment of broadcasting in the 1920s. When TVs emerged, pre-war, they were also licensed. Post war they introduced a combined TV-Radio license, but if, as most did, you only had a radio you only needed a radio license. This remained the case until the beginning of the 70s – not that long ago you bunch of fetals :roll: – when only the combined TV-Radio license was issued. Meaning if you only had/have a radio, you don’t need a license. But, also before the abolition of the separate radio license, if you were rich enough to have a fixed radio in your car, (if you were rich enough to have a car), you needed a separate license for that. Use your portable in the car and you were exempt – provided that you already had a home radio or TV-Radio license in the first place. :wink:

The Performing Rights Society came about at the time of escalating radio and records. Both were correctly seen as mediums where Joe Public en masse could be entertained by a recorded performance for which the originators should receive something. Radio stations etc have varying licensing agreements with the PRS and regularly submit playlists so the PRS can estimate how much to allocate to any particular artiste, writer, composer, publisher. If a hairdresser or anywhere where Joe Public is/can be, plays the radio, music system etc, they in effect are enabling a public performance – even if YOU don’t listen or YOU don’t like what’s being played. If they don’t want to pay a contribution to the originators then either don’t broadcast or record and playback their own original compositions and performance. :D

No.9
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#15
As No.9 says,

PRS allocates the play list to artists, If you remember Hugh Grant's movie About A Boy he played a guy who lived off just those royalties.

The performance thing was, I understand, correctly brought in to get cash off pubs that were playing CD's and stuff and making money off it - think nightclubs or Outback Bar in Cov Garden - there are patrollers and so on that go around and check these licenses.

The hairdresser sounds fair enough to me, Kwikfit doesn't.
 
#16
Ulster_Rifleman said:
Anyone playing music to the public must pay a fee to the PRS.
Not true at all. PRS is a society who set themselves up to collect fees on behalf of some musicians. They have no more legal standing than that.

I know of at least one case where a Restaurent which played traditional scottish folk music challenged their bullying - on the grounds that the music so old it was not copyright. PRS backed down. The same might be true for classical music or a nice collection of obscure "World" music ?

Anyway, I look forward to PRS taking on Kwik-Fit. How on earth can they be held responsible for their staffs personal radios - particularly as the radio station will have already paid royalties.
 
#17
Trossachs - "Not true at all. PRS is a society who set themselves up to collect fees on behalf of some musicians. They have no more legal standing than that."

Very true because another side of the equation is that you the artiste, writer, composer, publisher have to subscribe to the PRS in the first place. Then, as a member, if your effort is say 'obscure', you may have a job to establish it is being played and worthy of a divi?

"I know of at least one case where a Restaurent which played traditional scottish folk music challenged their bullying - on the grounds that the music so old it was not copyright. PRS backed down. The same might be true for classical music or a nice collection of obscure "World" music ?"

Good one, if true? Sounds akin to not paying a TV license because you have had your set modified to make it incapable of receiving BBC? I take it the restaurant was offering live music rather than recordings? Reason being, if a composition is 'Traditional' or otherwise 'out of copyright', there may not be a composer or writer to pay, but unless the same is true of the person/people whose recording is being played, royalties are still due to the recorders. e.g. For the UK, 70 years after the death of the songwriter or first publication of song if later, and for a recording 50 years after release or first publication. Hence if it was live music and the musician/s played only ‘out of copyright’ material, then it’s just down to the restaurateur to remunerate the performer/s. They could also provide him with recordings of same they have made. But if he wants to play other or ‘commercial’ recordings, he may have to stick to selected 78s or wax cylinder efforts? 8O :D

No.9

Disclaimer: The above is expressed as unqualified opinion only and as such should not be acted upon or relied upon to provide legal substance if contested. While the above is probably true it may be bollox so all and any should seek qualified and accredited professional advice.
 
#18
Just repeat my argument...

If a recording artists releases a song into the public domain via radio (in an effort to increase sales) they must surely do so on the understanding that the public will actually listen to it?.

If I decide to play Radio 1 in my workplace then it is not up to me to pay the artist any fees whatsoever. I am not recieiving a requested performance from the artist (as I do when I rent a movie from blockbuster) and I have no control over the broadcast nature of the radio therefore the artist much shoulder the burden of responsibility and either

1. Not submit their work to the radio station
or
2. Shut the f"ck up about it.

It's a matter of time until this gets put to bed royally.

Does any portion of my TV license go twards the running costs of the BBC radio? If so then a separate legal argument could be mounted that I am paying the BBC for their service and whatever they broadcast it is their responsibility to make sure I am not infringing any copyright by doing so.

If I walked into the Odeon Cinema and bought a ticket they could not show me a pirated film...
 
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