Libertas - whats the beef?

#1
I'll just start by saying that this isn't some cack-handed attempt at a party political broadcast, I don't have any links to the group in question beyond maybe voting for them in June.

Like a lot of people around here I'd rather not vote for one of the major parties in order to register a protest at their current financial shenanagins. I don't want to vote UKIP because their MEPs have been implicated as well, there's something a bit swivel-eyed about Farage and although I think the current state of the EU leaves a lot to be desired I'm not convinced that getting out of it is a better option than reforming it. The Greens are loopy and my views on the BNP can be found elsewhere on the forum, so they're both out too.

Then I found the website for Libertas:

Libertas is offering you a choice that no other party in the UK can. Libertas is not only dedicated to reforming the European Union and returning powers back to the member states, it is the first and only pan-European party. Whereas other British parties form a tiny fraction of the European Parliament and thus carry little influence, Libertas will be standing in all 27 countries in the EU as the only real opposition to the anti-democratic European superstate.

And it's big. Libertas is a major force for positive change right across the EU; we have a former Prime Minister standing for us in Latvia, the Czech President has endorsed Libertas and we have not one, but two former Presidential candidates standing for us in France, for example. It's the best chance we have ever had of serious reform in the EU, and we need your support to make it happen.

Whichever party you voted for last time in the UK, whether it was the Conservatives, the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats or UKIP, it hasn't made any difference. The EU is still anti-democratic, we still have the unwanted Lisbon Treaty, our money is still wasted on ridiculous projects and Europe is still run by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

If you want change, change your vote.

Libertas is offering you the chance to team up with voters right across Europe demanding a better kind of European Union.

Libertas is a brand new kind of party in the UK. We aren't here to talk about domestic politics. We have one purpose: to rebuild the European Union.

Every member, activist and candidate in Libertas works towards the same goal. We want to end the corruption, stop the waste, put democracy at the heart of Europe and return control to the member nations. We don't want Britain to be consumed by a bureaucratic European superstate, we want the UK to be a leader in a free, democratic, efficient European Union that only tackles those things that are best done at an international level.
Sounds good to me so far.

1) what am I missing?

2) Is a vote for them a busted flush or have they actually got a chance of doing something with it?
 
#3
I struggle to get my head around an anti europe, europe wide political party.
I'm afraid they aren't clear enough for me. I appreciate the ethos but what I am voting for is severence from europe in all but trade.
I will vote for whoever gives me that. Will Libertas?
 
#4
jagman said:
I appreciate the ethos but what I am voting for is severence from europe in all but trade. I will vote for whoever gives me that. Will Libertas?
I think that's more at the UKIP side of the scale.

It doesn't help that my searches for 'Libertas Manifesto' on Google have so far drawn a blank. they seem to have more of a presence in Ireland at the moment from the search results

Leader in the UK is Lt Col Robin Matthews, ex Light Dragoons. Anyone know him?
 
#5
I'm lost. I have the choice of 4 Anti EU partys. How in hells name are they going to get anywhere is beyond me.
NO2EU
UKIP
English Democrats
Libertas
 
#7
Libertas was one of the main opponants of the first Lisbon treaty vote here, the leader Declan Ganly is English but carries an Irsih passport......
Now they'd be on a slightly different side to myself in regards the EU, but it's an election, vote for them if you want.....some of their ideas I'd actually be in favour of.


Now for the bad stuff, DG seems to be ever so slightly dodgy in his business dealings (perfect politician then).

Libertas traded on Irish "nutrality" during the vote, ye Mr Ganleys company gets most of it's business from the US miltary....kind of hypocritical (again Politicain worthy)

Libertas and DG seem to have made some odd friends in Europe, some of them distinctly of the unpleasent end of the right wing scale......just look what happened at their recent Rome forum.


And some good stuff.....

Mr Ganley is a smart man and seems to be about himself.

Libertas may just work as a political party and not be a one party anti everything group IE UKIP, Veritas (remember them), BNP ect.....
 
#9
Libertas makes a lot of sense if you believe that you can change the EU from the inside, into something that you want to be a part of.

If you do believe that, give me a call, I've got a really good deal on this bridge that the Government is selling off cheaply...
 
#10
Tom_of_Bedlam said:
It doesn't help that my searches for 'Libertas Manifesto' on Google have so far drawn a blank. they seem to have more of a presence in Ireland at the moment from the search results
Not a manifesto but a statement of key policies:
http://www.libertas.eu/en/policies

Basically they are in favour of the being an EU but don't like the way the current one is run.
 
#11
angular said:
Libertas makes a lot of sense if you believe that you can change the EU from the inside, into something that you want to be a part of.

If you do believe that, give me a call, I've got a really good deal on this bridge that the Government is selling off cheaply...
That joke only works in China where the bridges are state property, you can buy a bridge in the UK :lol:

whether the price is cheap is another matter entirely.
 
#13
Mobat said:
Not a manifesto but a statement of key policies:
http://www.libertas.eu/en/policies

Basically they are in favour of the being an EU but don't like the way the current one is run.
What Libertas wants to change to make Europe better for you
Libertas wants democracy: not one European Union law should be passed without a positive vote in the European Parliament. Laws have to be approved, either by a national parliament and or the European Parliament. Laws made by unaccountable, unelected civil servants do not belong to a democracy.

Libertas wants accountability: any person who has the power to decide on a law must be accountable at the ballot box. The citizens will decide if that person’s actions and decisions are worthy of their votes.

Libertas wants transparency: without good reason to do so otherwise, all law making must be done in public.

Libertas wants a strong Treaty: The Lisbon Treaty would ensure that those who govern Europe are even less accountable to the people than they are now. Europe needs a strong treaty. A treaty that is clear to Europe’s people and that is supported at the ballot box by Europe’s people. A short and readable basic treaty, no longer than 25 pages. A treaty that motivates people to read it, understand it and vote on it.
It's a good list of 'areas for improvement', but it doesn't explain how they plan to go about it, which is the key thing to know if anyone's going to vote for them.

They certainly seem to be a very broad chuch, everyone from French Agrarianists and the Spanish centre-left to the pretty sinister looking 'League of Polish Families'. I don't quite see how they can hold that number of disparate political entities together.

Not convinced so far.

Petergriffen: would it be right to say that Libertas seem quite Catholic? Seems to be a part of the identity of quite a lot of the affiliated parties.
 
#14
Tom_of_Bedlam said:
Mobat said:
Not a manifesto but a statement of key policies:
http://www.libertas.eu/en/policies

Basically they are in favour of the being an EU but don't like the way the current one is run.
What Libertas wants to change to make Europe better for you
Libertas wants democracy: not one European Union law should be passed without a positive vote in the European Parliament. Laws have to be approved, either by a national parliament and or the European Parliament. Laws made by unaccountable, unelected civil servants do not belong to a democracy.

Libertas wants accountability: any person who has the power to decide on a law must be accountable at the ballot box. The citizens will decide if that person’s actions and decisions are worthy of their votes.

Libertas wants transparency: without good reason to do so otherwise, all law making must be done in public.

Libertas wants a strong Treaty: The Lisbon Treaty would ensure that those who govern Europe are even less accountable to the people than they are now. Europe needs a strong treaty. A treaty that is clear to Europe’s people and that is supported at the ballot box by Europe’s people. A short and readable basic treaty, no longer than 25 pages. A treaty that motivates people to read it, understand it and vote on it.
It's a good list of 'areas for improvement', but it doesn't explain how they plan to go about it, which is the key thing to know if anyone's going to vote for them.

They certainly seem to be a very broad chuch, everyone from French Agrarianists and the Spanish centre-left to the pretty sinister looking 'League of Polish Families'. I don't quite see how they can hold that number of disparate political entities together.

Not convinced so far.

Petergriffen: would it be right to say that Libertas seem quite Catholic? Seems to be a part of the identity of quite a lot of the affiliated parties.
The Irish and UK versions no, they seem very secular to me, but on the continent they do seem to attract those types of groups, as you showed, the same in Italy, Czech republic ect........Lech Walesa was booed at their Rome conference by the Polish members.....weird.
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
The EU is a mess but voting for a pan European party is symbolically and realistically accepting that our own parliament no longer matters.

If Europe as a state actor was to work then we'd all be voting for pan European parties, that the only such party is anti-EU as it stands tells its own story.
 
#16
Flight said:
The EU is a mess but voting for a pan European party is symbolically and realistically accepting that our own parliament no longer matters.

If Europe as a state actor was to work then we'd all be voting for pan European parties, that the only such party is anti-EU as it stands tells its own story.
And that is pretty much the truth of the matter.

Libertas is pro-EU and their platform of reform,while nobel,is laughable in the real world.

Vote Libertas if you are a well intentioned idiot.
 
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