Lib Dems change their minds on a referendum they cant win

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by royalmile, Jan 22, 2008.

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  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7201881.stm

    The Lib Dems have changed their minds on a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Basically both Labour and their Lib Dem supporters have reneged on their manifesto pledge. Instead they want a referendum on continued EU membership. IMHO because they know that one on the Lisbon treaty would be lost while a wider one would get the required support.

    Can't wait to hear Sven's spin on this!
     
  2. No change there then!
     
  3. No you have completely missed the point.

    They want a referendum on something they cannot possibly lose. They criticise the Tory party for wanting to get out of Europe completely (something they have never said, implied or could possibly want) and then propose a referendum on staying in the EU. All sane parties would vote to stay in, the vast majority would vote yes and the Lib Dems would claim full vindication for entering a United States of Europe. In the USE, they would, under PR and rediculous system of european coalition, exert far more influence than at present.

    Eurocrats in Brussels would reward the liberals for their achievement of bringing the federated british region into line.
     
  4. I think that is exactly my point. They know they would be on the wrong side of a Lisbon Treaty referendum so they want a wider referendum on EU membership which they would probably be on the winning side. Yes it is all about trying to gain credibility, both here and across the Channel. They probably had more when Charlie Kennedy chaired "Have I got news for you" and contributed to the "Food and Drink" programme :evil:
     
  5. But would they win that debate? If there really was a debate on the country's continued membeship of the EU, would they win the agrument? A lot of the information about the EU is too dull or kept too quiet for people to really analyse it; an open 4-6 week debate might well tip the balance they way they don't expect.
     
  6. I think your analysis is partly right, but there is a case or a wider referendum to ask "are we going to stay in they EU and get on with the proccess (instead of dicking around everytime a treaty comes up), or do we want something more like a simple free trade agreement?".
     
  7. No surprize there then.

    The sandal brigade; the Guarnod reading and beared inadequates, show, yet again, the ability to wave with willows and bend with the reeds.

    The right to change minds is unalienable - to ladies and Liberals. To lie to your friends and supporters is apparently the right of Labour ( anyone surprized?) and the Lib Dems.

    The result is the preservation of Brown and his revolting gang of third raters in government, and even more importantly, the HANDING OVER of our sovereignty to the European Soviet Union.
     
  8. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    The Libdems or PRO EU, as are Labliar, always have been, always will be, as are a goodly proportion of the Conservatives.

    The Libdems know that to get any chance whatsoever of getting into power, they have to wave the anti-EU flag, because this is what at 70% of the UK voters are - anti-EU superstate. They won't allow a voter referendum on the EU constitution, nor ratification of the 'treaty' because, left to the voters, the EU will be binned quicker than you could say 'French and German Stitch-up'.

    On the other hand, they are indeed quite happy to say that they will offer a referendum on continued membership of the EU if they get into power. Now, why is this? This is because, if it comes to it, and such a vote is on the cards, the EU president/commission, with the assistance of the pro-EU politicians and newspapers in the UK will all make it abundently clear to the British voters, and gobment that 'you are either IN, or your are OUT!'

    If you decide to leave the EU, there will be NO tarrif-free zone, the tarrifs for UK goods will be high, and many other cooperative processes between the UK and the EU will be curtailed. They will make it abundantly clear that the UK will be in the same boat as any African country in terms of favourable trade deals etc.

    Now, you might think 'Well, hey ho, no problem with that at all!', but such an 'out-only' option would be VERY bad for British business, certainly in the short term, and let's face it, most voters don't think in the long term, and politicians (most of them) only think to the next election (the EU project was dreamed up in the 1920's - and that's a LONG term plan.

    IN the long term for the UK (being zapped from the EU), things would improve tremendously, provided we didn't keep voting in complete spazzers for politicians, such as Bliar and Broon. We'd very soon be trading far better with our Commonwealth partners, we'd have better trading arrangements with the USA (currently hamstrung by EU tarrifs), we'd have a freer hand to negotiate and trade deals we like with other countries EXCEPT for the EU. Considering that most of our trade (that which made us a stinking rich country) used to come from everywhere BUT Europe, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    The problem is, the voters and business, thinking in the short term only, would be scared out of voting for leaving the EU.
     
  9. Strangely, I choose to quote The Cad quoting the FT

    So, no change in Lib Dem policies then
     
  10. Actually, we expect to lose any 'Get Out of EU' vote
     
  11. Does it really matter? The lib dems always follow Labour or the Conservatives depending on who throws them the juciest bone, they don't seem to have a mind of their own.
     
  12. Completely wrong.

    The Lib Dem thinking on this is that - DESPITE CONTINUING TO SUPPORT MEMBERSHIP OF THE EU, AND DOING SO VOCALLY - we acknowledge that many (and probably a majority) British people are disheartened about the whole thing and wish to leave.
     
  13. And who are they following in this matter, not the Tories - does this mean Labour want a referendum on EU membership?
     
  14. I'm sorry - are you really saying you think the majority of british people are so disheartened about the whole thing and if they want to leave, you will respect that view by leaving.

    LibDems are the most pro-European federalist party in Britain - it is completely inconcievable that you want to leave. Best gravy train Libs have available - works same way as pseudo paliaments in Scotland and Wales but with much better perks.

    Libs know vote in or out would result in an IN vote because not a single proper party would canvas for OUT
     
  15. Yet again the Lib Dems are muddying the water and making mischief with this whole issue!

    To ensure you don't miss out, you have to be in the middle of what ever, BUT again and it does not take allot to confuss the electorate of the UK, the Lib Dems are doing their bit, what do they hope to get out of all of this?

    The bottom line is, WE were promised a Referendum, yet again is this this government BREAKING yet ANOTHER promise?

    Election - Election - Election!

    Perhaps it's time we had a government of National Unity, or is that why BROON getting 'Advisors' from the other parties? :wink: