Mind you, if you believe you're right, and if it's the most effective weapon in the arsenal, why not?
If you had an army of occupation kicking your door down whenever they felt like it and if half-trained reservists kept banging .50-cal through your teenage daughter's bedroom walls, you might feel a little aggrieved.
We only know what WE know...we don't know what THEY know.
I've met people from the occupied territories and it's not like you see on the news. It's worse...
Israel is in danger of becoming that which helped create it in the 1940's.
Jenny Tonge said "She could imagine what it felt like, and if she was in the same position, of having been oppressed for decades , snd she could understand why people became suicide bombers" OWTTE
She didn't say "Hooray for the suicide bombers"
Saw Gavin Essler totally losing his rag on Newsnight last night. Anyone would think she'd made a personal slight against him . Mr. Essler, if your faith stops you being a neutral commentator, you need to change jobs.
At least, I assume it's your faith, as I haven't seen you go off the deep end like that against McGuiness , Adams, Paisley, Robinson or any of that crowd.
Mrs. Bluppet made exactly the same comments last year, and we don't see her sacked from her legal job do we?
60 years of guilt tripping, as someone else pointed out in another thread on History. Is that why we're (Our Government) always falling over themselves to support the Israeli position?
Yes I do think the Pals are oppressed , Yes I can see why some of these people become Suicide bombers, if that's all they have left to fight with.
However, Israel does have the right to defend herself against attack , but right now, it's all retaliation and counter-retaliation. There isn't one serious attempt being made, to sort this mess out. Actually, there is, everytime Bush 43 says "Get a grip or lose more money" Sharon will toe the line for a fortnight, then it's back to building more of that sodding Berlin Wall ,and nicking Pals land at the same time, Pals get upset, more suicide bombs.
Perhaps politicians just cannot help but empathise so much with whichever bunch of voters - sorry, group of interesting people - they happen to be talking to that they come out with twaddle like this. What's really bad is that she's not the first MP to try to claim some sort of random connection to a cause, however tenuous...
Well done Charles Kennedy, you gutless b*stard. You surrendered to the lobbyists. Say anything bad about Israel in public, and you are castigated and sacked.
Isn't it strange, where Israel is the one country on the planet, that you can criticise, and be called a racist?
That's how well the lobby has been working for 60+ years.
Jennt Tonge expressed her opinion. Not only were the remarks taken out of context, they were taken for a little drive too.
I was amazed to read of Labour Mp's calling for Tonges resignation/sacking . These same MP's were ever so fcuking quiet, when the wife of the beloved leader, made almost exactly the same comments last year.
Palestinian Terrorists are nothing but murderer's and i can sympathise with any Israeli who feels the need to shoot an armed Terr. After 60 years of the threat of extinction at the hands of what are nothing better (in the majority) than ignorant peasents trapped in repressive feudal systems. Naturally you find Israeli soldiers frequently sneaking into family homes under cover of darkness to kill Mothers and children while they sleep.
My statement was intended to provoke a response from the like's of yourself; I believe you will find it in a similar vein to that of "Tonge's".
As for propaganda do you really believe that the scene of another blown up schoolbus/cafe/synagogue/wedding et al is propaganda? and that complete with bleeding and dead innocents was staged or planned by the Israeli's for the benefit of propaganda...............
The problem in the Middle East is one of OUR making. Read the Balfour agreement of 1919.
two jewish boys taken to a cave and beaten to death.
Children slain in bed by men who sneak into their home in the dead of night and cut their throats.
Tourists who cannot get on a bus in Bethlehem because they fear the possibility of a suicide bombing.
Students killed while they eat lunch at a university.
Two soldiers (men who wear uniform) pulled from a Police Station cell (in PLA) ripped to shreds by a crowd.
All those are FACTS
um what massacre?
Missing Millions of European and British aid.........um says Yassir "What millions?"
Peace activists who appear only tooo happy to ensure peace on one side of the street.
Dead peace campaigner tough .....they're not on the busses in the Jewish Town's ensuring their safety!
Israels position is not entirely unassailable (no position ever is!)
It is however easily defendable for all and more of the reason's given in the previous post.
I am not privvy to all the information that the Israeli Int Agencies have so i am unable to comment on the timeliness or not of their targeted "interventions". That said I fully support their right as a nation state to protect themselves from terrorism. After all we have ourselves just fought a war based on the same premise.
LWM and I agreed to disagree on just this subject on another thread, and I don't want us to go over the old ground again here. However, as he's reiterated his position I'll do the same.
Israel was formed as a result of Zionist terrorism; many of the perpetrators are now members of the government.
Israel treats the Palestinians disgracefully, and in a way reminiscent of the way jews were treated in Europe in the 30s. Israel has illegally occupied Palestinian territory - just like Lebensraum.The Pals are disenfranchised and do not have equal access to healthcare, housing and education. They are forced to live in ghettos called refugee camps. Israel imprisons people without trial, and assassinates those it suspects of acting against Israel, usually killing innocent people in the process. Clearly they learnt nothing from the holocaust.
Israel has failed to comply with more UN resolutions than Saddam Hussein.
Whilst I don't support or condone terrorism in any form, I can understand that in desperation some people may turn to it. It doesn't solve anything, but then neither do Israel's responses.
I went to a school where almost half the pupils were jewish. Some became friends of mine, but many were bigots and racists. Looking at the school website, I see that many of the latter have gone to live in Israel (having been educated at our expense), and even changed their names to sound more Israeli.
On the other hand I have a friend who is a Palestinian; he is a surgeon, and a more civilised and pleasant person you could not wish to meet. He is very clear that negotiation is the key to peace, but cannot understand why the US and UK don't support the UN resolutions against Israel.
Well VB where exactly are you going to debate? .......We appear to dance from thread to thread.
Your same old ground is a re-iteration of nothingness.
Facts are exactly what you see on T.V thats the way the Pal's have played it until the tide of visual fact has changed to that they dont want broadcast You of course will be aware that the BBC was threatened with having its protection removed if in the immediate aftermath of the 2 Towers and it's subsequent showing of cheering Pal's it did not stop showing cheering pal's celebrating in the streets.
As for your Jewish mates that's great..your very cosmopoliton..my friends are Palestinian.in fact their father was shot dead in London as a result of internecinine warfare....he was the PLO representative in GB at the time of his death I think any archive search would reveal a murder in 1979 of the above, attributed to an "unknown" Palestinian Group. (For you I will even give their names and school at the time in fact I used to go to their flat)
Finally UN impartiallity was shown recently when Israel was castigated by a number of well renowned supporters of civil rights for their failure to comply with previous......yeah whatever
I'm prepared to be corrected on this but I thought that the former members of the Irgun/Stern Gang (the Zionist Terrorists pre 194 were no longer in government. Begin is dead, Shamir if he isn't can't be far off. Anyone else?
Sharon, who must be the oldest in the Israeli Government was in the Haganah/Palmach which was a self defence organisation precursor to the IDF. This is not to say Sharon is a soldiering saint, he's regarded as something of a Jochen Peiper (ironic) but was he ever a bona-fide terrorist?
Although I support Israel I cringe when I see terrified or grieving Palestinians (especially children) distressed because of the actions of a military I otherwise admire. On the other hand I can't think what purpose blowing yourself and Starbucks up serves any cause other than bequeathing the certainty that the IDF will bulldoze your parent's house and give your brothers a kicking.
The jack boot may be on the other foot but it is still a relative Jack Hush Puppy.
Maybe Israel needs a government headed by a civilian politician, rather than retired Generals ( the late Rabin, Sharon and Barak) and other ex regular professional soldiers (Netanyahu).
I've been out to Israel - and what I saw was very depressing. Both sides are:
a) Human beings
b) Hate the other side
c) Hit out whenever they can
d) Have given up on common sense and reason long ago
If things don't change (and I've no idea how they would) it will only end when one group effectively ceases to exist. At the moment the Israelis are favourites as they are better tooled up. You can't justify what the Palestinians do, you can't justify what the Israelis do. The whole thing is one big bloody mess.