Liam Fox - Top Brass for the Chop

Discussion in 'Strategic Defence & Spending Review (SDSR)' started by Wordsmith, Jun 27, 2011.

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  1. Wordsmith

    Wordsmith LE Book Reviewer

    The Telegraph is reporting Liam Fox's press conference and statement to parliament

    Generals, admirals and air chief marshals face sack, Liam Fox warns - Telegraph

    Wordsmith
     
  2. Having been briefed by a very senior officer last month regarding matters Int, he happened to take the opportunity to criticise the lack of moral fibre within the CS and Government when it comes to BIG decisions on Defence (topically the decision to continue with building two big floating car parks devoid of airframes).

    The relationship between this Government and the military is fragile at best, and Cameron's latest taunt doesn't help. They (Goverment) seem bent on taking the controls, firing the missile, then enjoying taking a back seat in 5 years time when voted out and the blame-game starts. Senior Officers on the other hand take responsibility for their decisions, and have a credible track-record of doing so, and understand the guilt and pain associated with making the wrong, life threatening decision.

    And as for appointing a Senior Officer in charge of this Joint organisation - good luck Mr Fox, you're****ed whichever Service you choose to lead it (unless its a General of course).
     
  3. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    Is it because more Colonels applied for redundancy than was needed
    Thay are hardly facing the sack
    No doubt a very generous package and for some a seat in the Lords to follow
    Can't see them having to worry about the local job market either
     
  4. Stuff it. Why don't we bin the stars and top brass, and then give macho MPs command appointments. Rather think Lt Clegg might have us doing tree huggie time!
     
  5. "unable to reconcile ambition with resources"

    whose ambition?

    I suspect the DB was unable to reconcile the direction from their political masters with the resources available....dictated by their political masters

    I would also note that most of the higher level decsion making in MOD is performed by civil servants, not military officers and that most of the procurement disasters seems to be vanity projects foisted on the MOD by....its political masters
     
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  6. or rather a procurement need becomes a disaster when for political reasons needs to be built in the UK or UK sourced or gold plated.
    and or spec changed made cheaper by random suggestions ala chinook.
     
  7. The Army remains constrained by an outdated regimental system and a Brigade deployment system that makes no sense at all. The RAF cannot decide on it's priorities and seems to want to do everthing (including having soldiers). The Navy invested it's reputation in having two big AC and allowed its main aim to wither on the vine, whilst demanding an ever bigger budget.

    Like it or not the MOD, Service Board and the old system have systematically destroyed their own credibility whilst being totally happy to play the public sympathy vote for the last 50 years. Be it save the Cheshires, save the Ark Royal or save the Tornadoes / Harriers or whatever. The lack of forward thinking, adaption and change management has been breathtaking.


    The MOD does not know what it wants, when it wants it and when it gets it complains that it is the wrong bit of kit for the current conflict. Add to that the UOR debacle and I have some sympathy with the politicians.

    We need change, but judging from the replies on here, already, it is; backs up, defend the indefensible and continue as is. No wonder all attempts to change anything in Government runs into a wall of cossetted individuals.


    The Armed Services and the MOD have shown themselves to be incapable of running themselves effectively and efficiently, surely, right or wrong, we should at least look at alternatives. Inter-service rivalry, and in the Army; Regimental and Arm rivalry have blocked nearly all change since WW2. We need to grow up and stop protecting a system that does not work and will not work in a future of increased cost and less budget.
     
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  8. "The MOD does not know what it wants, when it wants it and when it gets it complains that it is the wrong bit of kit for the current conflict. Add to that the UOR debacle and I have some sympathy with the politicians."

    Perchance that might be because of the complete lack of political direction, matched with resources ?

    It is a source of constant amazement to me that the MOD has staggered on for a decade before this crunch - it is all very well fulminating about single service agendas, but they flourish because there is a lack of governmental direction, a vacuum of commonsense, and a willingness by politicians to wallow in the reflected glory of the Armed Services while selling them short at every opportunity

    Finally the inability of elected politicians to tell the vested interetsts to get stuffed when bidding for defence contracts does not serve us well
     
  9. Or a complete lack of direction and guidance by the military and MOD bosses?
     
  10. "Or a complete lack of direction and guidance by the military and MOD bosses? "


    In our country it starts from the politicians
     
  11. Does it? Vested interest, inter-service rivalry, old boys protecting the Regiment, old boys looking to the next job, I think you are being too kind. Or have lived in a bubble for the last 50 years.
     

  12. And there we have it in a nutshell.


    Minister, we'd like X new toy.

    How many votes will buying X win me in my constituency?

    None Minister, It's made in France/USA/Israel/insert as appropriate.

    Then you can't have it.

    But we need it Minister!

    Ask BAE to design a UK version.

    But that will take 10 years and cost double!

    Yes, but it will create 5 jobs in my constituency and get me a non executive BAE Directorship!
     
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  13. Extract Minister insert General, Admiral, or whatever the f**k the Air Force call someone like that and then insert will create my job at BAE and you are spot on.
     
  14. "Does it? Vested interest, inter-service rivalry, old boys protecting the Regiment, old boys looking to the next job"

    Hmm, strange how defence policy has been dictated by this - and there was me thinking it was the government

    " I think you are being too kind."

    and I think you are being chippy

    " Or have lived in a bubble for the last 50 years"

    No, but I have spent the last decade in and around the policy area watching the games the politicians play

    I have also seen some of the advice that ministers have been given and chosen to ignore....resulting in many of the issues MOD is now having to grapple with

    Personally I think the creation of a Joint Force Command is long overdue, but the proposals will not solve many of the problems Mr Fox highlights without proper direction from the top

    SDSR was performed too fast, intellectually incoherent and has 'delivered' entirely illusory savings
     
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