Lets Get Rid of Half the Navy!

#1
Taken from The Sunday Times December 31, 2006

Half of Royal Navy’s ships in mothballs as defence cuts bite

Michael Smith

HALF of the Royal Navy is to be "mothballed" as it bears the brunt of cuts imposed after a series of expensive procurement projects and the hidden costs of the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Six destroyers and frigates and two other vessels are expected to be put into reduced readiness, known as mothballing, to achieve urgent savings of more than £250m. It can take up to 18 months to bring mothballed ships back into service.

The armed forces have been told to save more than £250m this year, and £1 billion by April 2008, amid a "rebalancing" of the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) spending plans, defence sources disclosed.

The MoD will also cancel the last two of the eight Type-45 destroyers the navy was supposed to get. The navy was promised the government would provide these in exchange for cutting 15 major ships in 2004, sources said.

Julian Lewis, the Tories’ defence spokesman, said the fresh cuts were "absolutely devastating stuff" and that cutting the number of Type-45 destroyers would be "catastrophic".

"You can’t have a navy without ships. This government is absolutely hellbent on the destruction of the Royal Navy," said Lewis.

Admiral Sir Alan West, the then first sea lord, has said he only accepted the cuts in return for the "jam tomorrow" of the eight Type-45 destroyers and two large new aircraft carriers he was promised.

Adam Ingram, minister of state for the armed forces, admitted this month that 13 of the Royal Navy’s 44 main vessels were already in mothballs to save cash.

A total of 13 were at sea, and a further 18 in port and ready to go to sea at any time. But the decision to mothball another eight ships will mean that 21 of the 44 are not available. Ingram refused to say which ships were out of action, admitting that this would "enable deductions to be made that could be prejudicial to national security".

Measures to save money that are already under way include a review of the Royal Navy’s three main remaining bases at Plymouth, Faslane and Portsmouth.

At the height of its power in the 19th century, the Royal Navy was as large as the seven next biggest navies combined. Even as the US and German navies grew at the start of the 20th century, it remained twice as large as its nearest rival.

But the 2004 cuts reduced it to its smallest since before Trafalgar in 1805, and there are suggestions it now needs only two major bases.

The decision last month to renew the Trident nuclear deterrent, based at Faslane, saved the Scottish base and made Portsmouth the favourite for closure.

Mike Hancock, the Liberal Democrat MP for Portsmouth South, said the cuts were "as potentially damaging as the (then defence secretary, Sir John) Nott cuts of the early 1980s, which preceded the Falklands conflict. Closing the Portsmouth dockyard, the most important of the bases, would be an historic mistake. This government keeps cutting back on equipment without cutting back on commitments. It is putting more on crews and undermining the navy."

The problems with the defence budget are largely caused by cost overruns in procurement projects such as the RAF’s Eurofighter Typhoon, the Bowman communications system, and the Navy’s Astute submarine and Type-45 destroyer programmes. The Eurofighter Typhoon programme costs about £1 billion a year, which will rise in the next financial year to £1.3 billion. The other major programme costs are: the Type-45 destroyer £600m, Bowman £545m and Astute £415m.

The cost overruns on procurement are exacerbated by the Treasury’s refusal to refund the costs of training for operations in Afghanistan and Iraq and up to 40% of the cost of actual operations. The Treasury claims to meet the full cost.

The MoD said it was not prepared to provide details of internal government budget discussions but it did not expect to see an overspend in this financial year and no budget had been set for next year.
Jesus wept. I swear, even moreso after reading news like this, that the government really is seemingly out to get the armed forces some times. That or at least the Treasury.
 
#3
What a bunch of cnuts.....

It wouldn't be so bad if the RN were doing sod all but as it stands we've got a permanent presence in the Gulf, the Med, West Indies/Falklands for example.

The only way the Navy would be able to absorb the reductions would be to reduce the commitments and that will never happen as the UK will always depend on the seaways remaining open and that is done by the very presence of the RN.

I've said it once and I'll say it again.... Bl'iar, your card is marked and you're the first one up against the wall come the revolution... :x
 
#4
So to cut £1 Billion from the defence budget, the navy loses half the surface fleet. Wouldn't it be much easier for the RAF not to get 20 Typhoons, which will probably never see service anyway.
 
#7
A total of 13 were at sea, and a further 18 in port and ready to go to sea at any time. But the decision to mothball another eight ships will mean that 21 of the 44 are not available. Ingram refused to say which ships were out of action, admitting that this would "enable deductions to be made that could be prejudicial to national security".
Anyone else read that as the Vanguards?

That’s the only difference in national security that these buggers would see.

So we where meant to get 12 Type 45's. Now we're down to six.

Shite, something really needs to be done about the cutting (and I don't mean some joke about a revolution either).
 
#8
And the response from the people of this nation made great by our command of the sea?

Wotevva. When's celebrity big bruva survival goes dancing meets the X Factor on again?
 
#10
No problem, it would save money. Only slight problem is that we are on an island surrounded by wet, shiny, slippery stuff!
As for Jonwilly's question about who is in charge of the asylum? Easy peasy - the Bean Counter in Chief, the Well Balanced, Chip on Each Shoulder, Let's Give All Our (yours the tax-payer) Money to Africa, Moody, Broody, Ill-Dressed and Ill-Mannered Oik G.Brown.
Anyway, I'm sure the French Navy will always come to our rescue, or perhaps we can ask our new best friends the Bulgarians or Romanians if we can borrow theirs from time to time.
Please, give us all strength to survive to the next General Election.
 
#11
Don't the Romanians have a couple of Type-22s? You might still have someone left in the country who knows how to run them.

NTM
 
#12
I believed half The Royal Navy had already gone, so slashing another half would just leave it at a quarter of its once great and powerful size. Its all doom and gloom I’m afraid.

RULE, Britannia.(crash) Britannia rules the waves.....Only in a fecking Bathtub.

SK :evil:
 
#13
Its a joke, when you see cut backs like that it makes the closing of one of naval bases a bigger possibility.

I think we really need to think about not bothering to replace trident in order to save money for the rest of the armed forces.
 
#15
MoodyBadger said:
So to cut £1 Billion from the defence budget, the navy loses half the surface fleet. Wouldn't it be much easier for the RAF not to get 20 Typhoons, which will probably never see service anyway.
The problem is twofold. The penalty clauses in the original Typhoon contract make it as expensive to cancel as to complete and the deal has job implications for British Wasteofspace Systems in northern England.

The second is that CrabAir is currently run by former fighter jockeys who want shiny, pointy-nosed fast-movers rather than less sexy but more necessary transport and refuelling aircraft.

It's probably no accident Desperate Des was made I/C MoD. He's one of Irn Broon's Treasury boys. He's there to ensure compliance with the cutbacks and stifle protest from the handful of tri-service top brass with the gonads to speak out in the first place.
 
#16
Trident mentioned. Obviously B'liar's plan is to have a couple of these in one of the ponds at St James' Park. Maint and operation out-sourced to a couple of Polish plumbers who would be on 3 day stand-bye anyway. Any emergency short of Trident requirement to be dealt with by negotiating through our friendly Islamic organisation. Terms of service include sharia law for all - them and us kaffers.
Real defence of England left to bunch of ginger-haired former outcasts wandering the hills living of "them" rations. Everyone else in UK drafted to Big Brother Support Company or working in sex-shops as demonstrators. Compulsort euthanisia at 40 years of age.
 
#17
The only note of caution I'd sound is that this report is basically a direct lifting of a Janes Defence Weekly piece from about 2 weeks ago, merged with some hansard facts. Unless a definite decision was taken in this time, I'd suggest this is speculation based upon a well planned RN leaking campaign.
 

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#18
jim30 said:
The only note of caution I'd sound is that this report is basically a direct lifting of a Janes Defence Weekly piece from about 2 weeks ago, merged with some hansard facts. Unless a definite decision was taken in this time, I'd suggest this is speculation based upon a well planned RN leaking campaign.
Well let's hope it works then.
 
#19
What a nightmare. Does this not strike the general public as slightly worrying? Can braincell no.1 not have a chat with no.2 and conflicts in iraqistan and serious cutbacks in the Navy not really making sense?

My wise old mother has said "traditionally you didn't vote for Labour if you wanted your armed forces in a good state".
 
I

In_my_day

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#20
Brick said:
Taken from The Sunday Times December 31, 2006

A total of 13 were at sea, and a further 18 in port and ready to go to sea at any time. But the decision to mothball another eight ships will mean that 21 of the 44 are not available. [b]Ingram refused to say which ships were out of action, admitting that this would "enable deductions to be made that could be prejudicial to national security".

.

Complete and utter pump, most matelots/yachtsman/their families/Princess Yachts, etc know that there are very simple open source methods of finding out what is operating in the major NBs. That does of course leave "them"...?

IMD

IMD
 

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