Leaving the EU now - attractive, but is the timing wrong?

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
I read this article expecting to throw toast round the room and kick the dog (if it hadn't died last year). Whilst I loathe the EU and all it stands for, I found myself agreeing with much of this, particularly that, if we jump now, we don't know what we're jumping to and we make it very easy for the Eurocrats to pin the current sorry mess entirely on the UK in the minds of their already very dim citizens and cause trouble - Hollande desperately needs a scapegoat as his (and Ed Milliband's) preferred economic strategy is collapsing around his ears.

Overall, I'm convinced that, if you believe as I do that the EU and the Euro is structurally flawed, we should follow a policy of not devolving more power to Brussels, extracting as much as we can from Paris and Berlin to stop us rocking the boat and then play a long game by shaping our exit strategy as response to the inevitable EU collapse and with the long term strategy of taking as many Northern European countries with us as possible when we go.

Should we be opportunistic or will a more long-term strategy be a better approach?

EU budget: it is selfish of Eurosceptics to try to force David Cameron’s hand - Telegraph
 
#2
Do we leave the ship whist at a convenient port or wait until everyone is jumping into the life-rafts?
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Do we leave the ship whist at a convenient port or wait until everyone is jumping into the life-rafts?
I like the idea of denying the Scots Nats any opportunity to play games with Brussels and of the chance to abscond with a reformed Northern EU which could actually be of value without the French, much of the Warsaw Pact and multiple assorted Mafiosi.
 
#5

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#6
It reminds me of 'whatever happened to baby jane' the bit where Jane says 'Blanche, you aint' ever gonna leave this place and you ain't ever gonna sell it.
 
#7
Just join the EEA - comprising Norway, Iceland, and Lichtenstein..they get all the benfits of free movement of goods and people without the rubbish from Brussels.
 
#8
Just join the EEA - comprising Norway, Iceland, and Lichtenstein..they get all the benfits of free movement of goods and people without the rubbish from Brussels.
If only.

We would still be influenced by EU policies without having a say in them. And the EU would become a lot less economically liberal without the UK pushing for it. It is out of the question for a country of the UK's size within Europe to be left out at the table where important decisions on European policies are made.

Unless you can tow the UK into the middle of the Atlantic the effects of the EU won't go away. Deal with it.

Instead of tabloid fused hissy fits from the sidelines, the UK should change the EU from within and become a major player, rather than leave the french and germans to it.

So a lot of this "shit from Brussels" won't change if we're in out of the EU, we just won't be able to influence it.


This is what Ulf Sverdrup, head of Norwegian Institute of International Affairs has to say on Norways position:

But the Norwegian model, shared with Iceland and Liechtenstein, is complex and costly, as well as problematic in terms of democracy and national interest. From a Norwegian standpoint the model is bearable, even if it comes at a high price in terms of democracy. But Norway is a small and rather rich country with limited ambitions to influence European policy. The Norwegian solution to Europe is not one that I would recommend for others.
BBC News - Viewpoints: How experts see UK role in EU


All in all the EU is just a handy scapegoat for the tabloids.
 
#9
Sod it, lets just get the feck off the boat and see how it goes. Can't be worse than what we already have. Besides, the way the EU Politicos ignore our PM, no-one will notice we've****ed off til its too late anyway
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#12
I read this article expecting to throw toast round the room and kick the dog (if it hadn't died last year). Whilst I loathe the EU and all it stands for, I found myself agreeing with much of this, particularly that, if we jump now, we don't know what we're jumping to...
And neither do most of the anti-EU population of this country, who, along with those who dislike Muslims, aren't exactly sure why, but as it appeared on their Facebook page the other day, they ticked 'like' and 'shared' it.

That wasn't a dig at you by the way.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
If only.

We would still be influenced by EU policies without having a say in them. And the EU would become a lot less economically liberal without the UK pushing for it. It is out of the question for a country of the UK's size within Europe to be left out at the table where important decisions on European policies are made.

Unless you can tow the UK into the middle of the Atlantic the effects of the EU won't go away. Deal with it.

Instead of tabloid fused hissy fits from the sidelines, the UK should change the EU from within and become a major player, rather than leave the french and germans to it.

So a lot of this "shit from Brussels" won't change if we're in out of the EU, we just won't be able to influence it.


This is what Ulf Sverdrup, head of Norwegian Institute of International Affairs has to say on Norways position:



BBC News - Viewpoints: How experts see UK role in EU


All in all the EU is just a handy scapegoat for the tabloids.
BBC experts? Log-rolling vested interest representatives from long-standing EU cheerleaders more like.
 
#15
...Can't be worse than what we already have...
theres always a 'worse', and people who live in rich, democratic countries with rights of work, abode and free trade across a political/trading block that stretches from Shannon to the Belorussian border and contains 500m people have an awful lot more to lose than anyone for whom there truly is 'it can't get worse'.

for anyone in the UK to use the phrase indicates they have an IQ of around room temperature.

the EFTA members pay a membership fee to the EU, but unlike us, they just get to obey the rules, rather than shape them - one would have to be almost sectionable to believe that was a good idea.

personally i think that a re-adjustment is in all interests, and is likely: it seems increasingly difficult to maintain an EU that has both Eurozone and non-Eurozone members within the current structures, and those who are pro-integration would like to be able to get on with it without the opposition that the UK and others have.

a free trade agreement between the Euroozone - however that pans out - and the UK is in both parties interests: even outside the EZ, the UK is 1/7th of all economic activity in the EU. Germany is not for one moment going to consider losing such a valuable export market just because we no longer wish to be part of the Common Agricultural Policy, so a deal will be done, regardless of the squeeling of Barroso and his ilk.

on of the good things about the Euro crisis has been the demonstration that it is not the EU structures which make the big decisions when the shit hits the fan, its the member governments in their naked self interest with the EU gimp making the tea and buttering the bagels while the Big Boys (Girls called Angela) running the show.
 

CanteenCowboy

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
To be properly 'British' about the whole sorry affair, should we not wait until there is a new twist* in the Economic crisis and then leave, just for that extra 'kicking a man when he's down' effect?

* Military coup/invasion of Turkey by Greek military. Large scale civil disturbance/law and order breakdown in Portugal/Eire/Spain. Outbreak of ethnically driven conflict in Belguim.
 
#19
Well rather than delaying we save £53 million for each day we are out. So the sooner the better for me !
But the EU stopping the crime of putting water into bacon is worth £53 million a day.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
And neither do most of the anti-EU population of this country, who, along with those who dislike Muslims, aren't exactly sure why, but as it appeared on their Facebook page the other day, they ticked 'like' and 'shared' it.

That wasn't a dig at you by the way.
But part of the reason that there isn't clarity on what we're jumping to is that the debate has been cynically shut down since Maastricht, though comparing Eurosceptics to anti-Muslims is a new twist, and it's only a catastrophe of gigantic proportions which has meant that even the EU can't keep it out of the news.

Whilst your scathing of the anti-EU population, equally I have yet to hear anything cogent from anyone who is pro-EU as to why a constitution which exempts large chunks of the Legislature and Executive from democratic and legal accountability is a good idea. The current system has palpably failed so the pro-EU lobby are equally clueless and, in their willingness to suspend much of the basic democratic process in order to achieve their objectives, very dangerous.
 

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