Discussion in 'Aviation' started by quickstop, Feb 27, 2006.

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  1. Where does it say that Leave is a privilege and not a right? I am not convinced.

    Nor that flying pay is for working the longer hours. I think a corporate memory has evolved and I wish to challenge it.

    Blokes work hard to earn their leave and then can't take it.

    Other people's poor planning is covered up by many more people working longer hours "because they are paid extra for it".

    All a load off *****.

    Queens Regs? JSP 550? PAM 101?

    Where I ask you is this guidance, or are we all being hoodwinked.


  2. Ask in the Admin/AGC area for all the detail.

    Leaveis not a priviliege anymore - it is an Annual Entitlement and the CoC is supposed to ensure that each person gets their full entitlement.
  3. CoC? What is that when it's at home.



    And while we are at it, surely any AT should not be considered leave or holiday, but more a return to our hardworking troops and an investment in their broader experience?

  4. I can see where quickstop is coming from. In my limited experience rules and regulations were almost in the urban myth category, where they were not checked but just handed down for all to misuse.

    I bimbled everywhere and anywhere from BAOR and I had planned a trip throgh Denmark and Sweden to Finland. According to my greenie tiffy, Finland was not NATO (correct) and communist (incorrect) and I had to submit some form in triplicate asking whoever for permission to travel to this country. The form came back enquiring which numpty had requested permission as it wasn't needed. I was waiting for it as he told me that permission wasn't required. "See I told you didn't need permission" came the very expected answer.

    Another example perhaps or not was when I was to be away in Norway on my own and of course being on leave you have to leave an address or is this just another urban myth? I had to phone on a weekly basis in case WWIII broke out and I wouldn't be able to take part. I phoned a very confused corporal who not having a map of Norway handy didn't know where Bodo was. I didn't either until the train had arrived but was slightly more informed than him. The next phone call was better as this corporal knew where Narvik was but since I was leaving the following morning, WWIII would have to break out that evening or I would miss out on all the fun and it would still take me days to get back to my unit.

    It's nice to hear leave is now an annual entitlement but I wonder if that makes that much difference as the CoC has to ENSURE that each person gets their full entitlement, me I'm just too much of an old cynic to believe that things have changed that much.
  5. I didn't know what a CoC was either, I just copied it. Thought it was updated form of some term that I've long forgotten. Sorry too much Grolsch.
  6. Officially the CoC must ensure that all personnel must take their leave entitlement, or give a valid reason why not (hopefully this does not include "Because it is my bl00dy train set and I want to play with it").

    Supposedly questions get asked at reasonably high level if soldiers are being screwed by a unit (there is the odd case of OC's and even COs volunteering their unit for every shitty job going in an effort to boost their OJAR/CR). Leave became an entitlement, rather than a privaledge IIRC sometime around the SDR (you know, the BS one promising us 2 large aircraft carriers). The GWA 2IC of 22RA (now disbanded) was furious that it became a right, and tried insisting that weekends constituted leave. To55er.

    Thankfully, with the exception of a few specialists and the advent of the mobile phone, days of calling in during leave have gone.

    Edited to add: CoC = Chain of Command
  7. Chain of Command
  8. Ah, the grand old caveat: a valid reason.

    Cheers for the input, but my problem is in the CoC. The phrase "privilege and not a right" is being used by my CoC. I want to counter it more forcefully. OJAR/CR filling is what my unit seems to want to do, at least in this case (not me I hasten to add - my career is screwed!).

    Is there a directive saying any of this? I'll check in with the AGC as suggested.

    Cheers all.
  9. Right now I'm suitably informed, I now know CoC is chain of command. Being an ex BAT I probably never noticed one or if there was one there just ignored it because it didn't suit my mood. Oh how we laughed when we were told that there were unions in other armies within NATO, almost worked that day. I've seen some sort of proposal that touches some issues that a union might deal with but it seemed to have been drafted by a civil servant, so I fell asleep by page four. I was frequently told that as SUS, I had no rights but after losing my SUS classification I was gobsmacked to see I didn't have a lot more rights anyway.

    So is a union a bad idea? I was a shop steward in two different unions, in two different countries and in no way did politics come into it which is the usual excuse for not having a union as it's all politically motivated. The CoC (I'm getting the hang of it now) was not affected and it's not compulsory to call everybody brother.

    Just thought I'd throw that on the fire and probably watch it disappear without trace, I'll go and post somewhere else, Brother A signing off.
  10. I know one SNCO whose boss made him stick in a days leave to take his kid to hospital. federation anyone?
  11. A federation, a union but this shows the inconsistencies that are apparently rife. It was an inconsistency that started my brush with authority back in 1980, I was promised one thing and given another. Still I wouldn't have had the chance to bore you all with my neverending stories. Maybe that federation if it ever comes has come way too late. Sad to hear things are still bad. Some things never change I suppose but it's about time they did.
  12. Flyingrockdj

    Flyingrockdj War Hero Moderator

    Why do you think it's called an entitlement!
    You have contract of employment which stipulates it.

    By the way after leaving I made a claim for not recieving ren leave due to deployments, courses and just not being allowed to take it and got the money instead- v easy with a good lawyer.

    Now I am taking on the scrote who killed my career with a bolloaus CR.

    Such fun and it makes the winter evenings fly by
  13. When my mum died I was given 2 weeks leave with the minimum of fuss thanks to a brilliant RSM which made a big difference during a traumatic period. I was posted shortly afterwards and lo and behold, my former 2ic had taken it upon himself to take two weeks REN leave off my leave card complete with forged signature on the leave pass in question. (True I swear)
    Once my new unit found out what had happened they reinstated it. Guess what happened to the Major in question? Answers on a post card please..
  14. Warrior Poet,

    Please tell me that something just and appropriate happened to him....

    What a cnut.

    Restore my faith in "the sytem".

  15. my money has to be on: