LEAN PRESENTATIONS

#1
Has anyone got any LEAN presentations they could mail me? Unfortunately i cannot access DEME (A) website to download the ones on there. Any help would be appreciated.
 
#3
I am currently working on a lean line. we have the whole fitter section + 3 crew (including the tiff!!!) working away on 1 wagon.

our aim is to get 6 wagons through in 6 weeks.

the RLC stores section is amazingly quick, expence is always to hand, and everything is running like clockwork!

HOWEVER.... is this not how it should happen anyway?

Is it me, or is this lean line prosess just another REME fad? (just like 'TQ' was and the REME PDR!!)

does anyone want to convince me otherwise?.... :?
 
#4
Thread_Bear said:
I am currently working on a lean line. we have the whole fitter section + 3 crew (including the tiff!!!) working away on 1 wagon.

our aim is to get 6 wagons through in 6 weeks.

the RLC stores section is amazingly quick, expence is always to hand, and everything is running like clockwork!

HOWEVER.... is this not how it should happen anyway?

Is it me, or is this lean line prosess just another REME fad? (just like 'TQ' was and the REME PDR!!)

does anyone want to convince me otherwise?.... :?


No it's not just you .it's nonesense unfortunately it appears to be flavour of the month with DEME (A) therefore Tiffies & above will pack away their spines and worship the Great God LEAN with one eye on their CR and the other on the next fad making it's way unerringly towards us !!!
 
#5
gunfighter said:
No it's not just you .it's nonesense unfortunately it appears to be flavour of the month with DEME (A) therefore Tiffies & above will pack away their spines and worship the Great God LEAN with one eye on their CR and the other on the next fad making it's way unerringly towards us !!!
no sh!t........ how amusing was the visit from the BIG-WIGS?

"LOOK AT ME".... "LOOK AT ME".... "ARNT I GREAT"....

have a word... we're only fixing tanks like its friday afternoon for fcuks sake. :x
 
#6
Thread_Bear said:
gunfighter said:
No it's not just you .it's nonesense unfortunately it appears to be flavour of the month with DEME (A) therefore Tiffies & above will pack away their spines and worship the Great God LEAN with one eye on their CR and the other on the next fad making it's way unerringly towards us !!!
no sh!t........ how amusing was the visit from the BIG-WIGS?

"LOOK AT ME".... "LOOK AT ME".... "ARNT I GREAT"....

have a word... we're only fixing tanks like its friday afternoon for fcuks sake. :x
wind your fcuking neck in knobber.
 
#7
freedomofspeech said:
Thread_Bear said:
gunfighter said:
No it's not just you .it's nonesense unfortunately it appears to be flavour of the month with DEME (A) therefore Tiffies & above will pack away their spines and worship the Great God LEAN with one eye on their CR and the other on the next fad making it's way unerringly towards us !!!
no sh!t........ how amusing was the visit from the BIG-WIGS?

"LOOK AT ME".... "LOOK AT ME".... "ARNT I GREAT"....

have a word... we're only fixing tanks like its friday afternoon for fcuks sake. :x
wind your fcuking neck in knobber.
"HA HA HA HA HA",,, (big career laugh) :D

Truth usually does hurt!...... Sorry for stating the facts!
 
#9
Devilishdave said:
As they say if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem!!
Outstanding blinkered view there DD, ever thought that the the path of the solution we are told to follow is so unobtainable and fruitless that everybody who thinks that they are part of the solution are actually compounding the problem?
 
#10
LEAN eh? 6 Bn did that for a bit. Total failure.
Lads who joined up to do something different being made to work in a factory on a line. No different to packing toilet rolls.
They get bored. The supervisors get bored and fcuk off. The lads are unsupervised. LEAN falls over.
When are we going to learn that the way it used to be done years ago was the best way? Do we really have to go through these 2 year periods of suck it and see before we find out what we all knew was going to happen?
Plan these things with lots of wooperts and wodneys who have no idea where the shop floor is let alone what happens on it and its bound to roll over and die.
It seems our leaders dont quite get it that somethings are good the way they are and change for changes sake demoralises, disjoints and destroys.
 
#11
Devilishdave said:
As they say if your not part of the solution you are part of the problem!!
Have you worked on leanline? I would say it is a big fad also, my experience is yes it can work if have the right set up but not well and not smoothly but lets face it every shop floor is different so never have the same sort of set up even if kit is the same.
Other factors come into play when it is running that have an equal or more important priority which clash also, normally down to fastballs, then you get the wodneys sticking their beaks in and fcuking it up with graphs and other kak and thinking of new ways to make it run better which more often than not dont work plus it is a great waste of money, order sh1t loads of spares in, have them on the shop floor to be used and accounted for, then end of lean line collate all the information try to give spares back to RLC they say fcuk off we cant be arsed back loading that pap throw it in the skip.....

The only solution to lean line is to mag to grid it i have worked on two and cant say i was sold by the idea.
 
#12
Its strange isn't it? LEAN works on minute details taking into account every spare second and timing a task to the enth degree yet its full of unpredictables and unmeasurables.
A 4 man team is going to repair a CR2 to an agreed standard in a given amount of time? Yeah right! It should be presented in an agreed standard by the driver mech but like that's ever gonna happen?
The people who set up this methodology of 'Emperor's New Clothes' proportions have obviously never been approached by a Squadron Leader asking "How long will my panzer be before it's fixed?"
Stock answer: "As long as it takes"
Sometimes you can take every ring of bolts off. Sometimes you can't. Some days it takes 20 minutes. Some days it takes 5 times longer. C'est la vie de le mechanique d'auto.
I'm getting a picture of some £500 an hour 'consultant' comes into the MoD and tells them anything and promises it's going to save £millions and they buy into it without even considering that he might be talking sh1t.
Add to that that LEAN lines also stop so the latest Big Wig can talk to the team and ask bone questions and its all pear shaped.
(WAG = Wives and Girlfriends........WIG = W*nkers in General?)
How about we have a day when everyone is supervised and where they should be doing what they should be doing. Not doing admin or nipping down to the Spar. Given a job card and told "This is what you get paid for. Go and earn your pay"
No getting taken out of work at the last minute because the QM needs 10 extra bods to sort out the store he's supposed to have been managing for the last year! No getting taken out of work because someone who was on stag has gone sick (nominate a reserve ffs!)
The Army is losing men at a 10 year peak? No sh1t!
 
#13
gunfighter said:
Thread_Bear said:
I am currently working on a lean line. we have the whole fitter section + 3 crew (including the tiff!!!) working away on 1 wagon.

our aim is to get 6 wagons through in 6 weeks.

the RLC stores section is amazingly quick, expence is always to hand, and everything is running like clockwork!

HOWEVER.... is this not how it should happen anyway?

Is it me, or is this lean line prosess just another REME fad? (just like 'TQ' was and the REME PDR!!)

does anyone want to convince me otherwise?.... :?


No it's not just you .it's nonesense unfortunately it appears to be flavour of the month with DEME (A) therefore Tiffies & above will pack away their spines and worship the Great God LEAN with one eye on their CR and the other on the next fad making it's way unerringly towards us !!!

what the fuk is going on I did not post this ???? :x
 
#14
dickie_out_and_about said:
Its strange isn't it? LEAN works on minute details taking into account every spare second and timing a task to the enth degree yet its full of unpredictables and unmeasurables.
A 4 man team is going to repair a CR2 to an agreed standard in a given amount of time? Yeah right! It should be presented in an agreed standard by the driver mech but like that's ever gonna happen?
The people who set up this methodology of 'Emperor's New Clothes' proportions have obviously never been approached by a Squadron Leader asking "How long will my panzer be before it's fixed?"
Stock answer: "As long as it takes"
Sometimes you can take every ring of bolts off. Sometimes you can't. Some days it takes 20 minutes. Some days it takes 5 times longer. C'est la vie de le mechanique d'auto.
I'm getting a picture of some £500 an hour 'consultant' comes into the MoD and tells them anything and promises it's going to save £millions and they buy into it without even considering that he might be talking sh1t.
Add to that that LEAN lines also stop so the latest Big Wig can talk to the team and ask bone questions and its all pear shaped.
(WAG = Wives and Girlfriends........WIG = W*nkers in General?)
How about we have a day when everyone is supervised and where they should be doing what they should be doing. Not doing admin or nipping down to the Spar. Given a job card and told "This is what you get paid for. Go and earn your pay"
No getting taken out of work at the last minute because the QM needs 10 extra bods to sort out the store he's supposed to have been managing for the last year! No getting taken out of work because someone who was on stag has gone sick (nominate a reserve ffs!)
The Army is losing men at a 10 year peak? No sh1t!
Spot on.

We did this a few weeks/months ago (thread on lean), I said virtually the same as has been said above. There is no need for lean, just let the guys do their job. Someone stated that lean lets them do this, no, managers/supervisors let them do this.
 
#16
Here's one for you....I have guys deploying to BATUS for Pre-LEAN line for winter repair! Now prep the wagons to make LEAN look gud!
 
#17
Cheers Ex REME. I'm glad someone else sees that the emperor is actually stark boll*ck naked and not dressed in sparkly spangly finery.
6 Bn did the BATUS Lean Line and then had to send blokes back over and over again to do the job right!!!
They had to do the same for a customer in BFG too!!!
Lean doesn't work......well managed men work.
 
#18
Did the 22 been out 10, did a factory manufacturing components for semiconductor industry, worked with a very clever Process Engineer, we measured the whole process.Went to Newport Pagnell on a one day course £300+ ea: read the books surfed the web.

Organised "workshop" visits to our factory had all the supervisors etc pretending to be a production line, Kanbans etc, we got some useful process improvements out of it but didnt adopt the full blown lean manufacturing,
It seems to work well in static locations where conditions can be controlled and are constant, and not unknown. changing processes you need multi skilled tradesmen etc some dont mix.

ie if a man went sick, holiday, or even to the toilet, he would be replaced immediately in say Honda Factory and so on, it works well as it was initially intended for as a lean MANUFACTURING process.

The Army is subject to change? you dont get the same job in the same environment at the same pace etc, smarter working is what we adopted, better equipment conditions and so on, and talking to and coming up with the goods the work force requested,

The Process Engineer I worked with has gone to China with his family, to help build up the Chinese semiconductor manufacturing industry he knew all along they would get into this market, we had samples of their work and he stated with better equipment for their manufacturing processes they will overtake us, he believes good equipment and smart working gives quality, just in time is ok but you need the same quantity all the time for the whole process, My wife tells me the RAF camp she is working for is into it big style,
so my Q is, far away, in ahot and hostile land, herc working alright herc stops????? what about the 30 squaddies about to be airlifted, they dont get another bird for days will this change?
regards
 
#19
daftpigeon said:
Here's one for you....I have guys deploying to BATUS for Pre-LEAN line for winter repair! Now prep the wagons to make LEAN look gud!
Simple explanation - FOF. Fear Of Failure. If it does not work then all of the instructions and support for this work practice past down from up high are wrong. The out of scope work that your lads are proberbly doing - engine changes and such like - will kill your lines output so the graphs and stats will not look good.

LEAN works as it puts a unit under ths microscope so people can visit and write articles for magazines. The lads make it work as the middle management are told to get it working at all costs.

F O F - earmark these threads for 2 years time and look back when they eventaully bin this idea along with all the other fads.
 
#20
Maggot_on_the_back_decks said:
Did the 22 been out 10, did a factory manufacturing components for semiconductor industry, worked with a very clever Process Engineer, we measured the whole process.Went to Newport Pagnell on a one day course £300+ ea: read the books surfed the web.

Organised "workshop" visits to our factory had all the supervisors etc pretending to be a production line, Kanbans etc, we got some useful process improvements out of it but didnt adopt the full blown lean manufacturing,
It seems to work well in static locations where conditions can be controlled and are constant, and not unknown. changing processes you need multi skilled tradesmen etc some dont mix.

ie if a man went sick, holiday, or even to the toilet, he would be replaced immediately in say Honda Factory and so on, it works well as it was initially intended for as a lean MANUFACTURING process.

The Army is subject to change? you dont get the same job in the same environment at the same pace etc, smarter working is what we adopted, better equipment conditions and so on, and talking to and coming up with the goods the work force requested,

The Process Engineer I worked with has gone to China with his family, to help build up the Chinese semiconductor manufacturing industry he knew all along they would get into this market, we had samples of their work and he stated with better equipment for their manufacturing processes they will overtake us, he believes good equipment and smart working gives quality, just in time is ok but you need the same quantity all the time for the whole process, My wife tells me the RAF camp she is working for is into it big style,
so my Q is, far away, in ahot and hostile land, herc working alright herc stops????? what about the 30 squaddies about to be airlifted, they dont get another bird for days will this change?
regards
Maggot (and others),

I am not REME but you are spot on. For 'lean' to work effectively you need absolute consistency of process and resource. These conditions can never be secured in any military establishment for the reasons articulated elsewhere in this thread, these being:

The resource to put in place a lean infrastructure will never appear. The effect of this is that existing buildings and equipment will have to be bastardised into a pseudo lean fit, and existing shortages of manpower and spares will persist.

The supply system is not leaned and is effectively, and perhaps irrevocably, dislocated from the engineering system. This is not just in terms of the range and depth of spares, but also includes the base overhaul of repairables, the feeding of the repairable system, and the distribution network that connects the supplies with the engineers.

The supplier of the work, the unit, has not bought into lean, and does not have either the will or the ability to feed the lean line in a consistent manner. Does anybody seriously believe, when units cannot even get vehs in for routine servicing in a timely manner, that a consistent flow into repair lean lines can be achieved? This is not necessarily down to lack of unit buy-in, but an effect of the tension and prioritisation effort that exists as a result of unit undermanning, training and admin overload, but mostly change fatigue.

And finally the REME themselves. They too suffer from chronic undermanning in pinch point trades, and historically have always been the ones working when the rest of the unit knocks off, but are still expected to provide guards, fatigue parties, and general dogs bodies in support of their parent unit. In addition, in common with other Arms and Corps, the officer cadre is now far too 'hands on', and instead of gently steering the ship and ensuring that top cover is provided for the troops, is on a constant mission to change things in order to be seen to be useful. Not only does this diminish the role of the WO/SNCOs it has a corrosive and deflating effect on everbody else.

Lean, in organisations such as Toyota, works because there is 100% organisational buy-in and it works because it is properly resourced and has a visible impact on the bottom line. Lean programmes in Defence, however, along with all the rest of the Defence Change Programmes, are simply an effect of under manning and under resourcing of the military. Of course it makes sense to optimise your organisation, and the CoC is doing its level best to manage an ineffective MoD, but the bottom line is that it is sufficient cash, boots on the ground, decent pay, and most importantly responsibility for both resource and task completion delegated down to the lowest effective level that will win the day.
 

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