Lean? Load of Arrse or worth the hassle?

I'm new to all this Lean stuff so could someone sell it to me?
Has it worked on anything other than a few Gay boy B vehs and are there templates to stop us 1st liners doing the initial leg work?

(as a footnote why are we sending IST's to 2nd Line, thought that was an einebahnstrasse when we were strapped?) :?:
Not sure on the 'Lean' thing, I could've gone to a brief about it, but we were busy at work. I could of course asked for an IST, but they were all at a 'Lean' brief ;)

ISTs can go all directions, it's just a formal way of asking for a and when you're strapped. We've got an IST going to the LAD across the tank park from us next week, and we're 1st line too. Actually, our sparky is helping out the VMs over there, but what the hell, call it an IST, looks good on Techeval.
Sparkies helping out VM's surely the VM's are Class2 Electricians anyway! At least thats what they used to say Nige.
Im all for becoming more productive but it just seems if they had packaged it properly it might be more acceptable to yer average black hander.
Telling an Artisan to go away and come up with some workable plans for something which they cant see working is too hard to sell.
Get Joe Crow shop floor munter to rock up and sell it to the workers not just Half Colonels having coffee mornings with the HND'ers.
Am i too crusty and set in my ways? Ha Ha probably!

good idea, too many conditons attached to getting one to help you out.

for example getting ready for ranges need a lot of prep and manpower, ask Bn for ist for a week to easy the bottleneck. Bn reply no. they will only assist with specific tasks( can we have 2 guys for a pack lift ).
missing the point i feel.
Also before anyone else mentions it(rebalance) the Bn's are struggling as well as first line because 411 blokes didnt just turn up Bn's absorbed a lot of first line gapped posts.

rebalance!! the future my arrse
Aye, it is a sad state of afairs VM's being helped out by VEs.

Mind you, I had an Armr asking for help on a firing circuit problem the other day - bloody fuming I was, I managed topick up a bit about electrickery on my basic course, why not them?

411 has done bugger all for Bns, CS coy now has less VMs apparently! When will we learn that REME needs to be at 1st line, grafting. Rebalancing seems to be about giving REME officers an empire to play with, well sod that. How many REME officers actually provide an 'in mission effect'? very bloody few. Lets have a REME officer study and send them the way of RS.
As soon as it looks like first line are going to be going on to overtime they should task second line IST threw Div and the Bn should support where possible but in no way does this include user servicing as has been requested by some units.

Some people support a conspiracy theory on the issue of the 411 Bn so when it falls flat on its face they can restructure again and REME will come under the RLC cap badge. Not my personal opinion just what others have expressed.

Personally I think we will always deliver the goods, the troops will just end up suffering though.

Why did it change from Periodic REME examination? Was it to get rid of the REME bit before we got swallowed up by another cap badge? Ha Ha conspiracy me thinks! Are we to be the "Royal Corp of People who help out on Ex and Ops cos Whole fleet management didnt cover that bit"?

If they make us so good using Lean it means less punters to line the Corp.
Arte et Billy Smarte
catchyerselfon said:
I'm new to all this Lean stuff so could someone sell it to me?
Has it worked on anything other than a few Gay boy B vehs
Not gonna try and sell it, its coming to a unit near you soon.

It was first used at Base with the WR overhaul, effected a massive saving coupled with more WR on unit strength instead of in ABRO's vehicle park.
That alone would be enough to raise its profile.


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I am a bit lost with the techy stuff like IST etc.

However I would like to know when demarcation bcame a way of life in the army. FFS you will be joining a union next.

One of the few things that a civvy employer likes about squaddies is that they get on with the job and don't fart about argueing about whose job it is.
"Royal Corp of People who help out on Ex and Ops cos Whole fleet management didnt cover that bit"?

we'll be even less in ten years time, a bunch of contract advisors.

Remember, in the words of the old DEME(A), we are here "to train for war".... That's why people like Oshkosh are getting contracts including the drivers, maint and repair packages...

In future all the contracts will come with the warranty, maint and repair packages including overpaid fitters for ops...., it would be uneconomical not to, now the Oshkosh thing has set a precedent
Lean has worked for some organisatons, as they still operated "cold war" structures, eg there was a lot of redundancy in their methods of production. Hence things like the Herc and Harrier lines managed to achieve great leaps forward. The same can be said for ABRO, where similar results were achieved. As such, I am all for it.

Where lean becomes slightly difficult is at 1st and 2nd line. Although we do have a barracks location, we are primarily configured for warfighting. This should not be a consultant free area, but they should first be givne a first hand lesson in expeditionary warfare before being allowed loose. However, there are still areas that could benefit from "the lean treatment" - such as the Garrison Workshops in BFG etc.

Lean itself is not a new idea - it is only the fact that it has been applied to the MOD. In fact, I am amazed that REME Arms School wasn't at the vanguard of leaning in the corps, given it's excellent reputation for teaching the softer side of things green.
What disturbs me about ISTs is that it seems that if there is no trg value associated with the required tasks then don't even ask. eg. ASM - "Can I have an IST to change a clutch on a B/Ford 8t pse?"...long pause, lots of sucking of teeth...BTO - "Not today, or any day this milennium, sonny jim, all my VMs are proficient with that task. I know because I've checked their RECs. Try Div they might help." Ummmm, is this the way forward??
I know that in practise, the ISTs are far more use than we feared. Having made a lot of use of them, both on ops and in barracks, I am now convinced of their utility and value. The fact is that we REME are above the "sucking of teeth", because we have to be. REME tradesmen muck in wherever they can, which is one of our strengths. You can expect to find a Tech GW trackbashing, or ripping out a drivers seat, because he's helping his mucker out.

The beauty of the IST is that you can tailor it to your needs. If your work is quite Tech intensive, then you get a big Tech IST. Vice versa, you get a VM heavy IST should you need it.
Spanner you must live in REME heaven.

I've tried to get ISTs and as pitbull says, if you can't give them training value, don't bother. Each Bn seems to have it's own rules. Don't get me wrong - the boys want to work, but you have to get the boys away from the 'doctrinally pure' officers and WOs.

Very true about trades helping each other out though - I had to re-educate a couple of lads in Castlemartin once - jacked on a Tech and they ended up sweeping the tank park outside the workshop building ;)
Depends on local policy. Our ISTs go to Bde who ask the Bn. Bde always ask us to ask other 1st line units first, which kind of defeats the object...
Suppose I was in the right place. CO of Bn was a good bloke, who believed in his guys and girls getting the maximum spanner time with a minimum of silly little jiff jobs around the place. Also had a good BEME (not alway a popular man, but got things done).

I think the era of "pure doctrine" should be ushered out - I find it embarassing. By all means, spout the right doctrine to get yourself the right ticks in the boxes, but don't inflict it on the boys!

Besides, I thought doctrine was for guidance purposes only - what about mission command? After all, it is easier to apologise afterwards, than to get permission beforehands........!
As a poor guy roped into the plethora of LEAN demonstrations with a certain A Vehicle unit I feel fairly qualified to make a few pertinent comments on LEAN.

I will try to be impartial (honestly)!

LEAN is no new concept (see link http://www.strategosinc.com/just_in_time.htm) it used to be called "Just-in-time" and other such Hysteria-Rendering names. The basic principle is straight forward: Get the bits you need from RLC without them moaning, get the Tradesmen doing what they should be doing ,not DCOS nerdy shit, and have the Crews sort of the fuck1ng wagons before they dump their shit on the REME to sort out for them.

LEAN in any other description is just some half Colonel trying to impress DEME(A) with his spin on it in the hope of getting a 1 star appointment sometime soon, or an MBE, or both.

My opinion, it can never work on the Battlefield, for the A Vehicles I work on we should concentrate on training the Crews to do their running gear checks, servicing and CFTs done instead of pissing about with "Find the Helmet" field training. 1st line units are too heavily burdened with Mods, Mandatory Inspections, oh and the occasional short term (not) exercise program to SPTA!".

My solution?? Leave LEAN systems to the units that can afford to man them: namely BFG Garrison Wksps and ABRO, the rest of us poor bastards in 1st Line and GS/CS Wksp are too busy plugging the Cfn VM shortfall.
ukdusty said:
My solution?? Leave LEAN systems to the units that can afford to man them: namely GS Wksps and ABRO, the rest of us poor bastards in 1st Line and CS Wksp are too busy plugging the Cfn VM shortfall.
Can any unit afford to man a Lean Line to the fullest? (inc support element)

Can you name a GS Wksp that isnt also plugging the gap?

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