Lead shot

ugly

LE
Moderator
A selective ban on areas where birds feed in shallow water might be less dramatic , cannot see a bit of lead shoot causing problems on the Medips where the Romans mined the stuff
That’s essentially what’s in place now! This is nothing more than Eu pandering
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I'm afraid that you slightly lost me at '100 plus grand'. To those who can afford that kind of money for a gun (or is it a pair?), the cost of replacement barrels would be an inconvenience rather than a calamity, or so it seems to me.
Read his response
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I'm afraid that you slightly lost me at '100 plus grand'. To those who can afford that kind of money for a gun (or is it a pair?), the cost of replacement barrels would be an inconvenience rather than a calamity, or so it seems to me.
The same argument could be said for a gun that costs 10 grand, which might sound pricey, but is pretty average in the grand scheme of things.

Again, the reason people are willing to pay this sort of money for a gun is because it should last a lifetime. When it’s only gonna last a few years, even the very wealthy are going to reconsider if this is such a sound investment.

This isn’t about rich people being inconvenienced because their toys will need fixing up, it’s about an entire industry suddenly having no customers.
 
OK, no response.
So, firing lead into the environment is acceptable because?
Surely, this is something that should be addressed and I speak as a hunt/game supporter?
 
Lead shot for birding/water fowl has been banned over here for a few years now in most States. It's not unusual to have a DNR Officer come along with a magnet to test cartridges, steel shot only these days.
 
We had a talk from the Gun Trade Association last June and they quoted a outright ban on lead in 3 - 5 years for animals being shot entering the food chain. Some of the smaller calibre deer rifles will become defunct overnight, as you will not be able to get a heavy enough bullet to produce the goods. Albeit lighter bronze, Copper etc performs better deformation wise, than the heavy monolithic bullets.
Theres already lead free option for current deer legal calibres , quite accurate as well , expensive though.
 

4(T)

LE
OK, no response.
So, firing lead into the environment is acceptable because?
Surely, this is something that should be addressed and I speak as a hunt/game supporter?

Dunno. Lead has been shot into the environment for hundreds of years. Apart from the aforementioned water fowl in shallow water, is it a critical problem that needs addressing? Are there significant numbers of humans that have been afflicted by lead poisoning that is attributed to lead from bullets? Given that metallic sheet lead is found on just about every building in UK and has been that way for millennia, is bullet lead a significant factor in environmental pollution?

Maybe it is a problem. I'm just wary of many/most proclamations these days, and the evidence behind them.
 
Dunno. Lead has been shot into the environment for hundreds of years. Apart from the aforementioned water fowl in shallow water, is it a critical problem that needs addressing? Are there significant numbers of humans that have been afflicted by lead poisoning that is attributed to lead from bullets? Given that metallic sheet lead is found on just about every building in UK and has been that way for millennia, is bullet lead a significant factor in environmental pollution?

Maybe it is a problem. I'm just wary of many/most proclamations these days, and the evidence behind them.
No data to back this up, however I would guess that removing tetraethyllead from petrol has made more of a difference than banning lead shot, bullets, fishing weights and roofs would ever do. Lead metal is pretty much safe, organic lead compounds not so much.

Same thing with mercury compared to organic mercury compounds, one is far, far quicker into the foodchain.
 
Dunno. Lead has been shot into the environment for hundreds of years. Apart from the aforementioned water fowl in shallow water, is it a critical problem that needs addressing? Are there significant numbers of humans that have been afflicted by lead poisoning that is attributed to lead from bullets? Given that metallic sheet lead is found on just about every building in UK and has been that way for millennia, is bullet lead a significant factor in environmental pollution?

Maybe it is a problem. I'm just wary of many/most proclamations these days, and the evidence behind them.
Lead on a roof is lead on a roof. I have a shiit load on my properties. Firing it in seed sized particles is probably worth investigating if it poisons wildlife.
I'm not against hunting and kills by lead are fine. I'd like to see the detail around firing a shiitload of seed sized lead into the wider environment.
I'll say again, I am not anti hunting.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I posted on another thread about how we used to have annual blood tests for lead poisoning at the gun factory.

Picture the scene, a factory where little has changed in 200 years. There is lead everywhere. Lead tools, lead vice clamps, lead rods for lapping barrels, molten lead being heated up to make new vice clamps. Lead lead lead. You get the picture.

Blokes would spend their entire careers working at a vice with lead clamps in the jaws. Gloves were never worn and blokes would often eat their sandwiches at their bench having not bothered to wash their hands.

Guess how many people showed abnormal or high levels of lead in their system?

0.
 
Dunno. Lead has been shot into the environment for hundreds of years. Apart from the aforementioned water fowl in shallow water, is it a critical problem that needs addressing?
Picture the scene, a factory where little has changed in 200 years. There is lead everywhere. Lead tools, lead vice clamps, lead rods for lapping barrels, molten lead being heated up to make new vice clamps. Lead lead lead. You get the picture.

And for hundreds (and hundreds) of years, people have been drinking water supplied through lead pipes (there's a reason it's called plumbing...)
 
I posted on another thread about how we used to have annual blood tests for lead poisoning at the gun factory.

Picture the scene, a factory where little has changed in 200 years. There is lead everywhere. Lead tools, lead vice clamps, lead rods for lapping barrels, molten lead being heated up to make new vice clamps. Lead lead lead. You get the picture.

Blokes would spend their entire careers working at a vice with lead clamps in the jaws. Gloves were never worn and blokes would often eat their sandwiches at their bench having not bothered to wash their hands.

Guess how many people showed abnormal or high levels of lead in their system?

0.
Lead paint. That is all.
Don't encourage your kids to lick the leaded glass or old paint on your window sills.
Your top hats, brushed with mercury, wont hurt them though.
There is literally no evidence to support lead poisoning. :rolleyes:
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Lead on a roof is lead on a roof. I have a shiit load on my properties. Firing it in seed sized particles is probably worth investigating if it poisons wildlife.
I'm not against hunting and kills by lead are fine. I'd like to see the detail around firing a shiitload of seed sized lead into the wider environment.
I'll say again, I am not anti hunting.
The West London Shooting School has been a clay ground since 1920. So for 100 years, with the exception of WW2, thousands of shots have been fired at that particular spot on a daily basis. We’re talking millions of shots taken in an area about 1km square over the years.

The amount of lead in the ground round there must be phenomenal, you could make a fortune if you could work out a way of extracting it.

I‘m unaware of any formal studies having taken place on the wildlife there, but it certainly seems a vibrant and healthy place as far as animals are concerned. There is even a massive nature reserve about 3 miles away.

Would be interesting to do some proper research on the eco system there. In terms of long term lead exposure, there can’t be many places with that much shot in the ground.
 
If you venture up north then you will see vast tracts of moors where shooting has gone on for at least couple of centuries.
The fact is that birds will not eat lead shot. The problem with wildfowling is that the game, hoover up the stuff indiscriminatly in the shallows, and so quite rightly this has been legislated against.
 
There may be a state funded replacement of lead pipes......don't know why though.

I do wonder whether "LEAD POISONING!!!!" was the Victorian equivalent of Global Warming. And, it's historical, so it must be true...
 
Theres already lead free option for current deer legal calibres , quite accurate as well , expensive though.
The big three US bullet manufacturers over here also offer lead free bullets in varying calibers, a little more expensive but affordable.
 
If you venture up north then you will see vast tracts of moors where shooting has gone on for at least couple of centuries.
The fact is that birds will not eat lead shot. The problem with wildfowling is that the game, hoover up the stuff indiscriminatly in the shallows, and so quite rightly this has been legislated against.
But lead isn't harmful. Shooters told us so.
 

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