LE commissions changes

#1
This may be the wrong forum for it, but I can not think of a better one.

There is a rumour doing the rounds at RHQ that LE commissions might be being changed to allow substantive Cpls aged 35 and over to get a single pip. Does anyone know if there's any truth to this rumour, I.e. is it being considered or is there an ABN out about it that I have missed?

Given almost nobody seems to pass AOSB at the moment, this might solve a few problems. Unless, of course, the selection process is exactly the same as for non-LE. In which case it solves nothing.
 
#2
If you've got Cpls who are 35 and over, don't you think that somebody will be asking why they haven't achieved Sgt?
 
#3
If you've got Cpls who are 35 and over, don't you think that somebody will be asking why they haven't achieved Sgt?
IN my case. I was away from my unit on a total of 2 tours and 2 years FTRS at the point I should have been picking up my second and third stripe so by the time that option came round I was no longer interested in being beasted at Brecon for the dubious pleasure of parting with £500 plus for a suit I might wear once a year and parting with at least £100 every mess do weekend BEFORE I start drinking or eating, along with £20 - £30 a month mess subs. Coupled with which as a Sargeant in a unit with 18+ WOII turning up you're treated as no better than a full screw an extra tape.

Given that. I was utterly uninterested in a third tape......
 
#4
Puttees: considering the age limit for joining is now 43, no.

If someone joins at 31, they can be a Cpl by 35 but in my capbadge would have to do 5 years before being eligible as a sgt.
 
#6
Given almost nobody seems to pass AOSB at the moment, this might solve a few problems. Unless, of course, the selection process is exactly the same as for non-LE. In which case it solves nothing.
I assume we're taliking TA?

Soldier entry still sub Sgt AFAIK. If there is some discussion about changing this, its probably at unit head-shed and above level - speak to your Bn 2IC or Adjt to see if there is any truth to the rumour.

That said, I can't see it myself. PIMH makes a good point, in any case, the issue is not AOSB pass rate, its the TA Commissioning Course uptake and pass rate. The solution to the problem with officer numbers is changing the current commissioning course and making the YO's job more attractive.
 
#7
IN my case. I was away from my unit on a total of 2 tours and 2 years FTRS at the point I should have been picking up my second and third stripe so by the time that option came round I was no longer interested in being beasted at Brecon for the dubious pleasure of parting with £500 plus for a suit I might wear once a year and parting with at least £100 every mess do weekend BEFORE I start drinking or eating, along with £20 - £30 a month mess subs. Coupled with which as a Sargeant in a unit with 18+ WOII turning up you're treated as no better than a full screw an extra tape.

Given that. I was utterly uninterested in a third tape......
Indeed, that's the other side of it - but if you were offered the chance of an LE commission, would the procedure and standing be that much different? Just a different trough.
 
#8
I assume we're taliking TA?

Soldier entry still sub Sgt AFAIK. If there is some discussion about changing this, its probably at unit head-shed and above level - speak to your Bn 2IC or Adjt to see if there is any truth to the rumour.

That said, I can't see it myself. PIMH makes a good point, in any case, the issue is not AOSB pass rate, its the TA Commissioning Course uptake and pass rate. The solution to the problem with officer numbers is changing the current commissioning course and making the YO's job more attractive.
Given the complete and total lack of Interest of UKLF and MoD in providing suitable training and the complete unwillingness of the Field Army to take TA officers in command roles.

What do you think..?
 
#9
I assume we're taliking TA?

Soldier entry still sub Sgt AFAIK. If there is some discussion about changing this, its probably at unit head-shed and above level - speak to your Bn 2IC or Adjt to see if there is any truth to the rumour.
TA is my interest in the issue, although I do not know if the intent would be for any changes to apply to the regulars too. RHQ has already been giving feedback to even higher up so this is way beyond unit level.

That said, I can't see it myself. PIMH makes a good point, in any case, the issue is not AOSB pass rate, its the TA Commissioning Course uptake and pass rate. The solution to the problem with officer numbers is changing the current commissioning course and making the YO's job more attractive.
Likely different in the infantry, which I assume you are in from your use of "Bn" above, but out in the Corps we have people interested. We just do not get anyone passing AOSB.

I do not see it happening myself either, as it would be far too constructive and blue-sky thinking for those right at the top to seem likely. Nevertheless, it was rumoured.
 
#10
Because you can be 35 and only have been in a year, even in the regulars? Although I would imagine this sort of thing is aimed at the TA rather than the regulars.
Puttees: considering the age limit for joining is now 43, no.

If someone joins at 31, they can be a Cpl by 35 but in my capbadge would have to do 5 years before being eligible as a sgt.
Points taken, but the intention of LE commission (as I understand it) is that it's an opportunity to substitute experience for formal qualification. If somebody already has the formal qualification and has the ambition to be an officer, LE probably isn't the appropriate route.

The TA is a perverse beast. Unlike the Regulars, it gives the opportunity for people to do the job they want to do - and keep doing it because the system doesn't create vacancies by pushing people upwards in a structured manner, instead it fills vacancies wherever they occur. Which is good for retention of the elder (not necessarily those with high rank) members, but limits opportunities for the younger (or more recently joined) ones. Stagnation stifles ambition and, perhaps without realising it, engenders fear in taking the next step on the ladder.

In my mind, LE commissions are for those who have ambition, have striven to get as far up the non-commissioned ladder as they can and when stagnation looms, are prepared to slip sideways onto the commissioned ladder where they can put their enthusiasm to best use. But with all the will in the world, they've also got to be seen as desirable by the officer community.
 
#11
Cheers FG.

Correct, I am infantry and its my narrow experience with my Bn that POs / OCdts can pass AOSB but faced with the TACC and an interest in operational soldiering, they do the PLANEX and arrive at the battle winning conclusion that the best COA is to do regular RMAS and an SSC! Well, many do anyway.

I guess you have another set of issues. My two penyworth is that if you have troops with leadership potential, who just aren't operating at AOSB level yet, then you could look at leadership development training within the unit. The regs did it for many years with O Types and Rowallan Coy, and hugely successful they were too.

I'll agree to differ in whether its a smart move to SE commission JNCOs, my view is that if they demonstrate the aptitude to be commissioned they should still be required to pass AOSB and TACC. But, nontheless interesting if it is being discussed.
 
#12
With JNCO commissioning, just be wary of stripping the Sgts Mess of its potential stars.
 
#13
You need stars in the stores!

Putties made a good point about stagnation, moving to different rank stream does appear to give the allure of varied opportunities.
 
#14
With JNCO commissioning, just be wary of stripping the Sgts Mess of its potential stars.
With 15 words, you've earned my eternal gratitude. It's good to see that somebody considers the interests of alternative rank streams. While the shortage of YOs coming through the system is well represented, it's a longer process to progress along the SNCO route. While it may be less of an issue in the Infantry, Corps generally have more slots to fill at SNCO and WO level and need a steady progression of suitably experienced personnel. Replacing someone who has been poached leads to gaps in the rank structure that takes years to correct.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#15
One of the solutions available could be for the TA to actively recruit ex regs and offer them the sort of career progression they couldnt have had as a reg. I left the regs and within 2 years had been promoted twice in the TA. I actually wanted 1 course which I needed local rank to attend but I couldnt persuade the OC to let me go. My falling out with the TA was a seperate issue but if a move into a commission was available perhaps I would have had more to offer than being perpettually put upon as the one with the experience and knowledge and therefore the permanent instructor never ever advancing myself.
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#16
With JNCO commissioning, just be wary of stripping the Sgts Mess of its potential stars.
Quite - This should not be the easy option when compared to the real issue of fixing the collapse of DE Officer recruiting and retention.
 
#17
One of the solutions available could be for the TA to actively recruit ex regs
In this month's Sustainer (RLC rag) there is a few pages set aside to convincing ex Regular Officers (like I'll soon be) to go TA. It looks pretty attractive and I would consider joining the TA after regular service...buuuuuuut...having worked with some of my TA counterparts, the things that annoy them about most Officer roles are the things that have annoyed me; namely too much time spent doing paperwork and not enough time spent doing what they joined to do - lead Soldiers in the field. The added pressure on them is that they have to do said paperwork after a day in their 'proper' job.

Id' say that's a major block to TA Officer recruiting. The 'Offer' needs to be better - or indeed more honestly outlined.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
The TA SAS put on a recruitment video for the half dozen COP men that were leaving the year I left, they made it look attractive enough but by then I was feckedb right up and wouldnt have handled the physical side of it!
I dont remember who or how but we were dragged from the block and sat in front of a video by the boss who thought we might be interested!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#19
In this month's Sustainer (RLC rag) there is a few pages set aside to convincing ex Regular Officers (like I'll soon be) to go TA. It looks pretty attractive and I would consider joining the TA after regular service...buuuuuuut...having worked with some of my TA counterparts, the things that annoy them about most Officer roles are the things that have annoyed me; namely too much time spent doing paperwork and not enough time spent doing what they joined to do - lead Soldiers in the field. The added pressure on them is that they have to do said paperwork after a day in their 'proper' job.

Id' say that's a major block to TA Officer recruiting. The 'Offer' needs to be better - or indeed more honestly outlined.
Proper job? I'd venture that apart from when in a PB the proper job of most officers is the efficient running of the unit. That could be leading from the front in lesson plans or by developing the junior leaders by delegating and also getting some of them to assist in the non sensitive paperwork side of the job so they dont get the wrong idea?
 
#20
Proper job? I'd venture that apart from when in a PB the proper job of most officers is the efficient running of the unit. That could be leading from the front in lesson plans or by developing the junior leaders by delegating and also getting some of them to assist in the non sensitive paperwork side of the job so they dont get the wrong idea?
No, the "proper" job is the one that pays the mortgage not the spare beer tokens earned at the weekends.
 
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