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LE Commisions for psychologist graduates.

#1
Are there any appointments within the corps for LE graduate psychologists. As mental health is an emotive topic within the military community and the recent published stats of high numbers of soldiers being casevaced from theatre, with mental health issues PTSD etc. Do the MOD use civi contractors or does the corps have people in green with these qualifications? Who are probably better suited to discuss PTSD, due to their own holistic perspectives.
Comments please
 
#2
No, we don't employ military psychologists in mental health. We do have civilian Clinical Psychologists who help out in some of our Community Mental Health Depts. There was a plan about a year or so ago to employ uniformed Clinical Psychologists in the TA in place of some Psychiatrist slots, but I'm not sure if this happened in the end.
 
#3
Psychologists 8O We could do with a few to assess the heirarchy within the AMS, might come up with a few interesting comments :roll:
 
#4
Inpatient psychiatric treatment has now been contracted out, and clinical psychologists may well be involved in some cases.
 
#5
ViroBono said:
Inpatient psychiatric treatment has now been contracted out, and clinical psychologists may well be involved in some cases.
How long before all the medical services are contracted out :evil:
 
#8
Give it 10 years (to allow the current and their groomed successors to achieve Lt Col pensions) and I'd wager [u]my[/u] pension that the QA's definitely and most of the AMS are TA. OP Telic 1 proved to the Treasury that the TA can provide the medical cover necessary for operations without the year on year cost of a standing AMS. IMHO a short sighted, but fiscally driven, incentive would be a reduction in MOD budget and an increase in available personnel to work in the NHS-vote winner?

As to Green Psychologists, only ever met 2 who wanted to be Green (1 ex-reg and 1 TA Int) the rest are more than happy with the MOD Civil Servant pay and conditions package they receive. Personally think it would be a good idea- every other Army seems to employ them usefully.
 
#9
lyse said:
OP Telic 1 proved to the Treasury that the TA can provide the medical cover necessary for operations without the year on year cost of a standing AMS.
What the TA provided can be called, very loosely, medical cover....they struggled and struggled and managed at the end of the day to do the job...but only just though. On Telic 1, the Regs built the Field Hospitals and set everything up as they couldn't be trusted to accomplish the job. Certain areas had the experience needed, Surgeons and gasmen, but the other professions involved such as Nursing and BMSs struggled.

In the end if the MoD go this way then when the first serious conflict arises and if it is high intensity, then the AMS will not cope.
 
#10
D-L on what basis do you say the surgeons and gas men had the experience but the nurses did not?

You have in previous posts explained that Regular Army BMSs multi-task in a way those employed in the NHS do not, so I understand your reasoning there.

Hospital specialists in the NHS are increasingly sub-sub specialists and their clinical skills are narrower than their Regular colleagues who are encouraged to remain generalists - ie very much along the argument you use for the BMS.

As for nurses I agree that they may have focused too much on sub specialisation. However, they tend to work in large teams which allow for the employment of specialists - as you have often stated you are often the only BMS at a facility when you deploy. As the policy (at large scale) is to evacuate any cas requiring more than 4 days at Role 3 ASAP. And because the RAF can evacuate cas at a rate that will mean most will leave theatre within 48 hours of admission. Most nursing care will tend towards the basic - i.e. at a level where any trained nurse with a year or so post-graduate experience should be comfortable.

Is this again yet another attack on your colleagues based not on the reality of their skills but because you have an issue over the status awarded to your profession within the AMS - which I agree needs addressing urgently. With the exception of CMTs who work for much of their career in field units, I have seen no appreciable difference in the military skills of those professions who spend most of their career in hospitals. When I do hear criticism of the QAs it's nearly always good old fashioned misogyny.
 
#11
RiojaDOC said:
D-L on what basis do you say the surgeons and gas men had the experience but the nurses did not?
On Telic 1, the vast majority, note the vast but not all, Nursing staff from the TA had never been near a patient on a bed needing general nursing care for a few years. This I witnessed and heard anecdotally. What is needed is to review their civilian occupational nursing role to see if it is compatible with what is required for AMS use i.e. No Matrons from nursing homes for example


RiojaDOC said:
Is this again yet another attack on your colleagues based not on the reality of their skills but because you have an issue over the status awarded to your profession within the AMS - which I agree needs addressing urgently.
True, I do get on my soap box very often and rant and rave. My time is nearly up within the AMS and my profession has come a long way since I firsted joined but we are still not recognised for our professional standing. It is frustrating and I do tend to become derogitary to other professions, especially Nursing. My "attacks" are based on what I percieve as a view by the AMS that only 2 professions exist in their eyes i.e. Doctors & Nurses. Not only my view but quite a few here too.

For my profession, if something isn't done promptly, then the manning problems are going to get drastically worse as our BMSs all drift to the NHS where their wage packet is vastly superior to ours at present!

RiojaDOC said:
When I do hear criticism of the QAs it's nearly always good old fashioned misogyny.
Not so much criticism of the role females play in our Medical services but about the cradual creep of the Grey Mafia (male & female) into areas once predominatly RAMC.

But I am guilty as charged of abusing them (in a fun manner) me Lord :oops:

Filbert Fox told me to do it-he really did
 
#12
they wouldnt be LE commisions anyway, theyd just be PQ commisions.

and yes, I did tell D-L to do it, and Id tell him do it again as well!!!
 
#13
2 Med Bde have conducted a full review of the qualifications and practical experience of TA medical personnel. And yes you are right many people (especially amongst the nurses) were found to have inappropriate qualifications or were not practising. Action is being taken to address this. But we have to be careful – some risk will have to be accepted or we will have too few personnel.

My view is the way around this is to have the RHQ and “Drill Halls” of TA Fd Hosps actually inside major Trusts – literally in the same building. 207 Hosp might for example have its RHQ in the Christie Hospital in Manchester and have a training facility in the grounds. Any such arrangement is a Hoon to Reid level negotiation but we have embedded the regulars, and it is where most of the TA come from in the first place!

As for the "creeping Grey Mafia". I see this as a democratisation of healthcare that simply reflects in how care is now delivered. The days when doctors spoke and all followed are long gone. As D-L has said in relation to another subject his profession has been transformed over the last 20 years and are no longer simply technicians working at a bench their influence as a profession has grown. Nurses have two advantages. First - sheer size (not because they eat too many pies) it is the largest health profession and this gives you political clout. Second - span of parctice - it is a very broad based profession which is involved in all areas of health and social care. Their academic skills may not compare well with yours as a BMS, but their ability to have a professional effect in all areas I do not think can be seriously questioned. I think there is an analogy here with the “big army”, nurses are like the infantry, lots of them not all necessarily very bright. BMSs are like Intelligence Corps analysts, very bright and not very many of them - battles cannot be won without them. But who actually ends up running most things in the Army because of the broad set of skills they have? Oh and by the way I know the current CGS started in the Int Corps... but then transferred to Para Regt... but that only proves my point.
 

X-Inf

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#14
RiojaDOC said:
My view is the way around this is to have the RHQ and “Drill Halls” of TA Fd Hosps actually inside major Trusts – literally in the same building. 207 Hosp might for example have its RHQ in the Christie Hospital in Manchester and have a training facility in the grounds. Any such arrangement is a Hoon to Reid level negotiation but we have embedded the regulars, and it is where most of the TA come from in the first place!
As a lowly administrator in the NHS (and therefore even more hated than QAs) I find the idea of moving into an NHS trust hard to take on. Firstly what trust will voluntarily give up hegemony on part of its territory? Secondly, if forced to then their general managers will spend their time trying to get back 'their' facilities.

There would come a time when, after the facilities are built, the papers would latch on to the fact (leaked by said managers) that hospital facilities are not being used fully and only at weekends and some evenings. Pressure would be put on to fully use the facilities to ease the NHS burden, TA would be forced out and facilities built with MoD budgets handed over to NHS.

IMHO the problem can only be solved by ensuring the TA personnel are trained in their area of responsibility. This is so for all other parts of the TA regardless of capbadge and should be so for AMS also. The onus is on AMS to provide suitably trained personnel. If that means staff working as part of their training in NHS facilities, then fine, but we should not get into the field of looking as though we are merging with the NHS.

Just in case it has escaped you, the priorities of the NHS do not always meet with those of AMS.
 
#15
X-Inf - far from it I am fully aware that the NHS have different priorities. Having been on the periphery of negotiations to release reservists from the NHS/DoH before the last 2 major operations involving UK plc (Kosovo and Iraq) I became acutely aware that the NHS had no idea now we go about our business and were not always sympathetic to our needs. For all the difficulties and shortcomings of the MDHUs, my experience of talking to senior Trust managers there is that they are much more on side…. not as much as I would like, but there is not the frank hostility I meet when dealing with senior trust staff with hospitals with no military connection.

I'm not sure what the NHS are going to use RHQ offices for, and if training facilities can be shared with the Trust... why not?

As for training of AMS I can’t see your point. The AMS TA trains its personnel in the same way as any other branch. The difference is we have a large number of health professionals who cannot be deployed unless they have the sort of experience you get in the NHS. D-L is correct, we have a large number of people who have inappropriate qualifications or do not have recent relevant experience. Taking the Matron of a care home example he uses, it won’t be possible to give these people the experience they need clinically and give them the military training in the normal TA training year. Basically we need to recruit people who are doing the job for real, primarily from the NHS.

We are desperately short of clinical personnel so any cooperation with the NHS has to be welcomed. I can dream up the most brilliant structure for the TA, and a great training programme for those who don’t have the relevant skills. But if no one wants to join, and their ill informed employers choose not to cooperate what’s the point. Painful compromises have to be made!
 
#16
X-Inf said:
As a lowly administrator in the NHS (and therefore even more hated than QAs)
Never, we like you here X-Inf :wink:

Back to the main rant from me.

As a BMS on the ground it is all very nice to hear that you understand our problem but exceedingly annoying to see nothing being put into action! The only thing I saw that could have a good impact was the PQWO but that was handled badly though.

So where does that leave the BMSs, Radiographers and Physiological Measurements???

Much the same as before with nothing on offer and more Op tours as the numbers dwindle
 
#17
D-L,

I don't know how more clear I can be. The AG rejected the PQWO idea on principle. It had nothing to do with the quality of the arguments or the way anyone in the hierarchy handled it. AG was of the opinion that the problems in the AMS cadres affected were not of an order to either introduce a totally new concept (the PQWO) or to justify the “all commissioned” option.
 
#18
I know RD but I saw it as a way of saving the BMS and the other cadres!

Apparently latest rumour is they are looking at it again :roll:

Just had a pay review body-will we hear good news :?

Just has JSJET visit-what will they say :?
 
#19
some dud by the name of Jamie Hacker Hughes is the senior Psychologist (civ) but tried to commission in the regular army. i think he was refused due to the fact that the MOD couldnt justify paying a lump sum to one person when they could easily employ loadsa community psychiatric nurses. having said that if the psych nurses put in for courses like CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy for the non academic) they are turned down. the bereaucratic ineptitudes and political chicanery in the AMS is appalling
 
#20
dui-lai said:
PQWO, Apparently latest rumour is they are looking at it again
Its no longer on the shelf to be looked at a later date, it has been binned completely.
Thats straight from the puzzle palace during the WOs convention
 

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