Laying history to rest

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by kes1, Mar 30, 2009.

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  1. The British Empire ruling other countries
    The slave trade
    The Holocaust
    The taking land/rights/life away from indiginous people (Aborigines, Maoris, native Americans etc)

    How long do the 'guilty' parties to these things - and more - have to keep apologising and/or paying for what happened?

    How much time should pass before ghosts can be laid to rest and the descendants of the people affected finally feel they have justice?

    These things should never be forgotton but should there come a time to move on?
  2. Why the fcuk move on when you have some sorry git like out mob willing to blow sunshine up your arrse and pay you reparations, it's a full time job being a victim now you know.
  3. I think you'll find that the guilty parties are all dead. I personally am still outraged at the Roman invasion and I'm going to demand an apology and compensayshun from the Italians.
  4. Its politics-theres votes in victimhood, and thus political interest in keeping a sense of grievance going amongst some people...thing is, for the non-european world from the 16th to the 19th century the question wasn't 'Will we be colonised?' but 'Which state within the vastly militarily and economically superior western civilisation will colonise us?' I'd submit that given a choice, most would prefer to be colonised by the british rather then the Russians or ex-british India (large, stable democracy, future superpower) to the former Belgian congo (insane sh1tpit)...
  5. Well, as a starter for ten ... maybe these things should be forgotten when the "guilty" party looks like sincerely apologising for and acknowledging the wrongdoing, in a way that means something.

    That doesn't mean saying "I'm sorry if maybe some of my ancestors stole half of Africa", especially while your wealthy corporations, supported by the government, continue to steal everything that's not nailed down.

    In other words: little point apologising for exploiting Africa 150 years ago when your government's policies and those of the IMF and World Bank , not to mention Europe's CAP, ensure Africa's continuing wholesale rape.

    Or, the short version: you're excused only when the apology is honest, and hypocrisy absent — but we are talking about NuLab here ...
  6. What a load of rubbish! We don't have to work hard or force our governments to be honest, we can just blame it on the white man (and rely that there'll be fools who'll actually feel guilty about it)! Such an easy getout clause, you've fallen for the victim industries propaganda...
  7. If this were the NAAFI the conversation would go something like this.
    "The British Empire ruling other countries"
    Tough. We had a flag. Shut up.
    "The slave trade"
    Ask the people who sold your ancestors to the traders. Oh sorry you're still at war with them.
    "The Holocaust"
    They got Israel out of it and infinite cash from the US they should count themselves lucky.
    "The taking land/rights/life away from indiginous people (Aborigines, Maoris, native Americans etc)"
    That's the way of the world. Might is right. Tough.

    But it isn't so I'll shut up.
  8. The slave trade was started by black people selling other black people. Fact!
  9. I was so very tempted to stick this little debate in the NAAFI :D
  10. Personally, I dont see why anyone should have to apologise to anyone else, for things that happened well over a century ago and beyond.

    As far as raping Africa for example, it wasnt just the British empire that had its fill, France, Spain, Holland, Germany, the US, and im sure countless more, took what they wanted from Africa also.

    That goes for South America too, and indeed parts of Asia, all had one thing or another "raped" from them by the, at the time, Powers!

    This whole blame and make amends policy, that seems to be the new wave order of things, gets on my paps.
    Things happen, its history, get over it, and move on.

    Do the Greeks want recompence from Iran? for the Persian armies and what they took?
    Do we ask for our virtue back, taken by the rampaging vikings? or indeed the Romans/Italians?
    Do the various countries that were ravaged by the Mongolian hordes all want pay back?

    Where is the line drawn, as to what is forgotten, and what should be apologised for?

    All the countries that were "raped" are now far more advanced than they would be by now, had they not have been.
    Do you think the majority of African countries would have airports, hospitals, schools etc etc, allbeit nothing like the western/civilised world, and I use that term very loosely, but would they have advanced if the rest of the world hadnt got in there and colonised it as well?
    I doubt it to be honest, afterall, they do still have people living in mud huts, hunting their food, please dont tell me thats a life choice!
    As Frankie Boyle says, "if I lived in Darfhur, and saw my family dying due to starvation, I cant help but think, why not just move"

    But I digress, History is written by the victorious, not the loser, so why say sorry to a nation or race, just because thier ancesters were not up to the fight?

    Sod em, move on, and get on with today.
  11. I think if we are going to apologise for the things we have done wrong as a Country, they rest of the world should thank us for the myriad of good things we have done.
    -Stopping the slave trade.
    -Uniting India
    -Bringing civilisation to africa and making it very productive, untill it was given back to the natives.
    -Spreading the idea of liberal democracy
    -Sacrificing our standing in the world to stop Absolutist imperialism from the Germans.
    -Sacrificing our standing in the world to stop Fascism.
    -Given Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica (and many others) their own governments with no bloodshed.
    -A common language.
    -Countless scientific advances, probably more than any other nation on Earth.
    -The Internet.
    -Inventing the major international sports.

    The list goes on, and I'm still waiting for thanks.
  12. And the other countries that are being continually bashed for one thing or another?

    (BTW I think it was actually the Swiss that invented the internet ;) )
  13. Ah, so Berners-Lee is a swiss name is it? :p
  14. I read somewhere that the original 'internet' was created at CERN labs to enable faster sharing of information and discoveries
  15. CERN is an international project that just happens to be in switzerland, Tim Berners-Lee, who was a British scientist working at CERN. He is pretty much universally accepted as the father of the World Wide Web.