Laurence Fox - Political ambitions

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
In the immortal words, he waits to see which way the crowd is going and runs to the front and says "follow me".
It's a trite and attractive bon mot, but I don't think it's more true of Johnson than of most politicians. Being popular is part and parcel of being a successful politician, along with saying what people want to hear. From people I know who worked directly for him when he was London Mayor, the clear message was not to be fooled by the amiable HIGNFY buffoon act, he's a scarily intelligent operator who isn't afraid to make decisions.

Let him play PM for a while and then just f*ck off.
He will. But if you think he's playing then you've been suckered.
 

skeetstar

Old-Salt
Yep, mate of mine worked for him as mayor. Said the buffoonery is all an act, and that he is a very sharp cookie.
 
Yep, mate of mine worked for him as mayor. Said the buffoonery is all an act, and that he is a very sharp cookie.
I don't doubt that he's a lot smarter than the buffoon act - the question is whether it's smart enough, and in the right places. He might be an excellent writer and performer, unbelievably effective at creating and maintaining an electable image, and all round the razor-sharp political operator - but anyone who suggests that they're going to "carry on shaking hands" at the start of a pandemic, obviously just doesn't get infection control or exponential growth; anyone who suggests that we could build a bridge to Northern Ireland, has no clue about engineering.

I respect Thatcher for doing what she believed to be the right thing for the nation; I suspect Johnson of doing what he believes to be the right thing for himself alone.
 
It's a trite and attractive bon mot, but I don't think it's more true of Johnson than of most politicians. Being popular is part and parcel of being a successful politician, along with saying what people want to hear. From people I know who worked directly for him when he was London Mayor, the clear message was not to be fooled by the amiable HIGNFY buffoon act, he's a scarily intelligent operator who isn't afraid to make decisions.


He will. But if you think he's playing then you've been suckered.

I happen to think him extremely dangerous.

But fortunately when the new OSA goes through, all debate to the contrary will be squashed.

You might be happy for someone to wipe their arse on convention, but it may be neccessary to remind you of that when someone you don't like is in No 10.

Awaits "what about Blair" or some other bleat from the Choir.
 
True, but Kinnock also had the advantage of a young movement that supported his reforms (Blair et al); senior Party members with a bit of credibility (John Smith);
possibly one of the best PMs we never had.

Edit - that was intended as a complement rather than insulting mockery

I think he would have been a very good PM
 
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I respect Thatcher for doing what she believed to be the right thing for the nation; I suspect Johnson of doing what he believes to be the right thing for himself alone.

Ive always said (to the ire of many) Thatcher was the last PM (possibly senior politician) we had who did what they thought was best for the country - Not party - friends - interest groups - reelection chances but what they thought we needed*


*Accepting that what she thought was best may not have been - but thats a seperate argument
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
I happen to think him extremely dangerous.

But fortunately when the new OSA goes through, all debate to the contrary will be squashed.

You might be happy for someone to wipe their arse on convention, but it may be neccessary to remind you of that when someone you don't like is in No 10.

Awaits "what about Blair" or some other bleat from the Choir.
I'm not happy for convention to be ignored, but when the elected Govt wishes to alter the status quo, and what they have have ranked against them is the Civil Service, the Opposition, a rump within their own party, the Speaker and almost all the media, and the only tool to get anything done is a clunking majority, it's unsurprising that the Govt gets into the habit of pushing the envelope (till it splits). I don't think it's a good thing per se, but it's important to remember they didn't get to where they are in a vacuum.

I fail to see the relevance of the OSA, could you explain please?

Thanks.
 
I'm not happy for convention to be ignored, but when the elected Govt wishes to alter the status quo, and what they have have ranked against them is the Civil Service, the Opposition, a rump within their own party, the Speaker and almost all the media, and the only tool to get anything done is a clunking majority, it's unsurprising that the Govt gets into the habit of pushing the envelope (till it splits). I don't think it's a good thing per se, but it's important to remember they didn't get to where they are in a vacuum.

I fail to see the relevance of the OSA, could you explain please?

Thanks.

Priti Patel's rather quiet little consultation on some new Official Secrets Act , which helpfully


The consultation closes tonight at 23:45hrs if you fancy sticking your oar in.


I somehow rather doubt the foreign agents registration stuff will get on the statue books, for the reasons I have expressed over on the Russia Report thread.

Still less journalists trying to find out what she is doing, the less police IT will have to miraculously reset all the devices to remove the conversations eh?
Text messages to police officers from the home secretary over the policing of an environmental protest were deleted in an IT "glitch", a court heard.
Arrests were made at a blockade of News Corp printing works by Extinction Rebellion in Broxbourne last September.
A lawyer representing some of the six defendants on trial said messages from Priti Patel had been deleted from the phones of "two very senior officers".
 
Ive always said (to the ire of many) Thatcher was the last PM (possibly senior politician) we had who did what they thought was best for the country - Not party - friends - interest groups - reelection chances but what they thought we needed*


*Accepting that what she thought was best may not have been - but thats a seperate argument

A not unreasonable point - the files demonstrate in stark detail her willingness to go full handbag if she adjudged it in the interests of the nation, even if that meant the recipient of the handbag was the President of the US, the chairman of the 1922 Committee, etc, etc.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Priti Patel's rather quiet little consultation on some new Official Secrets Act , which helpfully


The consultation closes tonight at 23:45hrs if you fancy sticking your oar in.


I somehow rather doubt the foreign agents registration stuff will get on the statue books, for the reasons I have expressed over on the Russia Report thread.

Still less journalists trying to find out what she is doing, the less police IT will have to miraculously reset all the devices to remove the conversations eh?

Thanks.

Whilst I understand your concern I'm not sure I agree with your level of opprobrium; I am slowly coming to the conclusion that effective government is made extremely difficult to impossible by the modern day level of intrusive media investigation and interrogation of government apparatus and political appointees. Case in point: the UK media coverage of the Covid pandemic, which has been unrelentingly negative and biased against any action taken. A level of opacity would have made the task of the government far more manageable over the course of this crisis. Before anyone suggests that isn't desirable, I'd just say that I would prefer the nation to be governed effectively through this crisis, rather than it being held hostage to any development, leak or action being immediately seized upon by the press / MSM and examined for its utility as a cosh to beat the Government with. It's unsurprising that the Government wants their job (which in this case is to minimise deaths and safeguard the health and wealth of the nation, not a simple task by any means) not to be made impossible.

I understand that this is in direct contradiction to what the media see as their right and their duty to report everything, and they see no responsibility to make the task of government easier, but I am unconvinced that this is actually good for the nation in time of crisis. No doubt this makes me a terrible person.

I'm not totally convinced by what I've written above, but I feel that it's an area the deserves fuller consideration than it is getting at the moment; how can an imperfect government (as they all are) operate effectively in a panoptical world where any mistake, change or lie, regardless of the consequence, is immediately thrown back in its face? The idea that any government can operate effectively without making changes, making mistakes, and telling lies is a ridiculous fantasy IMHO. If at any point you or anyone else think that you've identified one, please let me know because if you're right I'll vote for them.

Shouldn't the press/MSM be required to report responsibly (ie: allowing the government to function, by not publishing everything they find)? For example the BBC was recently handed a file of Naval intelligence material about HMS Defender's Crimean trip, which they reported on including certain juicy elements which it's probable was a boon for our potential enemies the Russians. Why not report on the leak but not on the content? The first letter of BBC still stand for "British"; why report on this when it's damaging to the national interest? They're more interested in their interest in publishing the story than the nation's.

Of course there is a frightening potential for any reduction / control of press freedom leading to UK becoming a police state; but lets face it - it's a very low risk.
 
Lawrence Fox once appeared as a rare glimmer of hope against cancel culture and the erosion of British culture. Perhaps it was genuinely well intentioned at the time but now defending freedom of speech apparently extends to propagating disinformation and using insinuations of censorship when questioned on incorrect details. Tom Harwood challenged him on his claims about vaccine testing. Fox had no response other than to double down with he would be sure to pass his emails through Tom for approval. He seems trapped in a corner of his own making. If he backs down he will lose some followers. He's not the only one. There are plenty of others believing the disinformation seeded by Russia, China and Iran, propagated via bitchute, facebook and other platforms.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
He's not the only one. There are plenty of others believing the disinformation seeded by Russia, China, the USA, the UK and Iran, propagated via bitchute, facebook and other platforms.
It needed adding.
 
Lawrence Fox once appeared as a rare glimmer of hope against cancel culture and the erosion of British culture. Perhaps it was genuinely well intentioned at the time but now defending freedom of speech apparently extends to propagating disinformation and using insinuations of censorship when questioned on incorrect details. Tom Harwood challenged him on his claims about vaccine testing. Fox had no response other than to double down with he would be sure to pass his emails through Tom for approval. He seems trapped in a corner of his own making. If he backs down he will lose some followers. He's not the only one. There are plenty of others believing the disinformation seeded by Russia, China and Iran, propagated via bitchute, facebook and other platforms.
A great pity, really, as he seemed so sensible at the beginning of his Journey. There seems to be a line which others, too, have crossed, from being sane, rational and intelligent to nonsensically foolish where vaccination, lockdown, etc are concerned. 'Freedom!'
 
A great pity, really, as he seemed so sensible at the beginning of his Journey. There seems to be a line which others, too, have crossed, from being sane, rational and intelligent to nonsensically foolish where vaccination, lockdown, etc are concerned. 'Freedom!'
See also Nigel Farage.
 
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer

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