Land Rover horror stories

[grimbo]

Agreed, but I got a feeling those at JLR aren’t really interested in the original users of Land Rover. ie Military/Farmers etc. The just want the Chelsea tractor set and the up market set!

Nail on head .....but Chelsea tractor and yummy mummy school run out number Farmer's many times over. so good for sales and business despite it being unreliable .
JLR are now incapable of building a vehicle for the Mil / Farmers/ UN type market that Toyota have pretty well sown up now .

 

[OneTenner]

Agreed, but I got a feeling those at JLR aren’t really interested in the original users of Land Rover. ie Military/Farmers etc. The just want the Chelsea tractor set and the up market set!

Mil & 'farmers' (i.e. Defender buyers) has been hovering around 5% of total volume for many years, effectively subsidised by the other vehicles due to Defender being the most labour intensive vehicle to build.
The wider problem is that people that will never be new vehicle buyers always have a view on LR's new or current vehicles with a view to buying them as third or fourth owners - that is purely down to the longevity of the vehicles, other marques generally don't have stuff trundling round twenty or so years after it was built.

 

[WALT]

I was reading by chance about the old BTR-60 APC series and one of the many firms who offer upgrades for them and their successor, the -70 and -80,offered a Rover TD engine in place of the original petrol engines. Would a Landy engine really be able to push one of those vehicles around?

I recall an article, many years ago, may have been Soldier, with the AAC towing Pumas (8 tonnes) out to taxi with 2.5 liter 110s. The article did point out that clutch wear was a problem, but if it's not your garage bill and the REME are there, where's the problem?
Just googled the BTR and the original GAZ is 90 HP, so two TDIs should be more than enough oomph.

 

[grimbo]

Yes, they have a poor reputation, but if your occupation is fixing cars, it's just one more.

You would think the techs at LR dealers would all have own brand then apart from the cheap to fix part.....

My friends R Rover was at the dealers for over a week for a turbo change at just 6 months old so not a simple job it seems ?

 

[OneTenner]

Nail on head .....but Chelsea tractor and yummy mummy school run out number Farmer's many times over. so good for sales and business despite it being unreliable .
JLR are now incapable of building a vehicle for the Mil / Farmers/ UN type market that Toyota have pretty well sown up now .

Not incapable, personally I think they took a conscious decision to move away from a market that wasn't profitable - purely a business decision in my view. Defender is still a capable vehicle but not 'iconic' other than the name (which has only been around since '83 i think) and as a new platform, will be developed and mature.

 

[OneTenner]

You would think the techs at LR dealers would all have own brand then apart from the cheap to fix part.....

My friends R Rover was at the dealers for over a week for a turbo change at just 6 months old so not a simple job it seems ?

Depends on parts availability, workshop loading, etc. There's one of my jobs that has been waiting parts for two months so far, repair time is about three hours but as far as the customer is concerned, it's taken two months (so far) to fix.

 

[WALT]

Defender is still a capable vehicle but not 'iconic' other than the name (which has only been around since '83 i think)

1990 was the introduction of that silly new name, to differentiate between the Discovery and other new SUVs. *spit* The beginning of the end.
The 90 and 110 was introduced in 1984 and was still called "Land Rover" until 1990.

As you can see, I'm old school and drive a 1987 110 Land Rover (still going strong- well as much as a knackered old Land Rover can).

 

[grimbo]

Mil & 'farmers' (i.e. Defender buyers) has been hovering around 5% of total volume for many years, effectively subsidised by the other vehicles due to Defender being the most labour intensive vehicle to build.
The wider problem is that people that will never be new vehicle buyers always have a view on LR's new or current vehicles with a view to buying them as third or fourth owners - that is purely down to the longevity of the vehicles, other marques generally don't have stuff trundling round twenty or so years after it was built.

Apart from your current brand Merc , BMW , and in the 4x4 world of course Toyota with many 80 series still working hard daily at 30 years old and 100 series at 20 years old and both going up in value not to mention Hilux ....that byword for a reliable and tough pickup .
Contrast that with at least 3 local L332 R Rovers parked up and gathering moss due to uneconomical to repair failures ....


Correct I would never buy a new R Rover ....but then I would never buy any new car preferring to buy an ex demo or one year old vehicle with the balance of warranty ...... the problem with L405's is their value drops so steeply that even a year old one is losing you a fortune after 3 years whether due to real or perceived concerns about reliability and running costs

In fairness none of the paragons of reliability are what they were .....you will well know Merc current issues and VAG and BMW all have lemons in their range.... Toyota UK have given up importing full size Landcruiser....and some of the most reliable vehicles are now made by Kia ...... strange times

 

[grimbo]

Depends on parts availability, workshop loading, etc. There's one of my jobs that has been waiting parts for two months so far, repair time is about three hours but as far as the customer is concerned, it's taken two months (so far) to fix.

Apart from it wasn't a sudden failure and the vehicle was booked in for the job weeks in advance and not given to the dealer unless she was assured parts were available..... they have 2 L405's both under 2 years old and both have been in the dealers multiple times ..... . such a shame because they are nice vehicles but neither will be replaced by a JLR vehicle when the warranty runs out

 

[OneTenner]

Apart from your current brand Merc , BMW , and in the 4x4 world of course Toyota with many 80 series still working hard daily at 30 years old and 100 series at 20 years old and both going up in value not to mention Hilux ....that byword for a reliable and tough pickup .
Contrast that with at least 3 local L332 R Rovers parked up and gathering moss due to uneconomical to repair failures ....


Correct I would never buy a new R Rover ....but then I would never buy any new car preferring to buy an ex demo or one year old vehicle with the balance of warranty ...... the problem with L405's is their value drops so steeply that even a year old one is losing you a fortune after 3 years whether due to real or perceived concerns about reliability and running costs

In fairness none of the paragons of reliability are what they were .....you will well know Merc current issues and VAG and BMW all have lemons in their range.... Toyota UK have given up importing full size Landcruiser....and some of the most reliable vehicles are now made by Kia ...... strange times

Yer, I was probably being a bit economical with twenty years, thirty to forty is probably nearer the mark marque.

Kia are no different, they have a similar number of vehicles in their 'graveyard' as where I work - they're about 250 metres away so we can see them pushing the dead ones into the workshop whilst we're warming our hands on the heated rear screen waiting for someone to open the roller shutter so we can push a dead one in too.

 

[OneTenner]

Apart from it wasn't a sudden failure and the vehicle was booked in for the job weeks in advance and not given to the dealer unless she was assured parts were available..... they have 2 L405's both under 2 years old and both have been in the dealers multiple times ..... . such a shame because they are nice vehicles but neither will be replaced by a JLR vehicle when the warranty runs out

Well you clearly have more info on that particular case than I do.
Any number of things could extend the repair time - I assume they also booked your friend into a replacement vehicle?
ETA - first you talk about taking the body off for a turbo repair (L319 etc.) then say it was 'over a week' (so five working days or so, assuming it was being worked on all day every day - unlikely) then mention L405 which is a monocoque body. Reads to me like you're trying too hard to make your point.

 

[jagman2]

Generally Vauxhall is the brand owned by most tech's at the dealerships where I live - they're cheap, easy to fix (if you have access to a workshop) parts are easily available and running costs are low. Yes, they have a poor reputation, but if your occupation is fixing cars, it's just one more.

At work I use an 1.5 turbo petrol Insignia as a runaround.

I expected to be very disappointed, actually it's alright. It's a perfectly ok car.
I wouldn't buy one, but I have no problem using one

 

[OneTenner]

At work I use an 1.5 turbo petrol Insignia as a runaround.

I expected to be very disappointed, actually it's alright. It's a perfectly ok car.
I wouldn't buy one, but I have no problem using one

My eldest Son has an Insignia estate - I told him that's (one of) the downside to having kids.
We don't see him often - he thinks the dogs are 'bad with small children', in reality....

 

[grimbo]

Kia are no different, they have a similar number of vehicles in their 'graveyard' as where I work - they're about 250 metres away so we can see them pushing the dead ones into the workshop whilst we're warming our hands on the heated rear screen waiting for someone to open the roller shutter so we can push a dead one in too.

Probably the one thing we can all agree on is that new vehicles are becoming over complex , less reliable and much more difficult to diagnose and repair than even 10 years ago.... and then you can't get the parts.....a fact that makes it difficult to attract and keep youngsters who are needed to repair them ......same in Agriculture and any decent tech can walk into a dealership and be offered a job.

 

[OneTenner]

Probably the one thing we can all agree on is that new vehicles are becoming over complex , less reliable and much more difficult to diagnose and repair than even 10 years ago.... and then you can't get the parts.....a fact that makes it difficult to attract and keep youngsters who are needed to repair them ......same in Agriculture and any decent tech can walk into a dealership and be offered a job.

Yer, I'll go with that

 

[jagman2]

My eldest Son has an Insignia estate - I told him that's (one of) the downside to having kids.

It drives surprisingly well and isn't as horrifically slow as I expected

Reasonably well equipped and the build quality is higher than anticipated too.

I don't pay for it so it's a bargain

Like I say, I wouldn't buy one but if I had to own a shopping trolley I would give one serious thought
Bigger engine and it would move from ok to not bad

 

[OneTenner]

It drives surprisingly well and isn't as horrifically slow as I expected

Reasonably well equipped and the build quality is higher than anticipated too.

I don't pay for it so it's a bargain

Like I say, I wouldn't buy one but if I had to own a shopping trolley I would give one serious thought
Bigger engine and it would move from ok to not bad

He bought it.....
His Mrs. has a Focus ST that the kids 'don't fit in'...
Yer, I know.

 

[grimbo]

Well you clearly have more info on that particular case than I do.
Any number of things could extend the repair time - I assume they also booked your friend into a replacement vehicle?
ETA - first you talk about taking the body off for a turbo repair (L319 etc.) then say it was 'over a week' (so five working days or so, assuming it was being worked on all day every day - unlikely) then mention L405 which is a monocoque body. Reads to me like you're trying too hard to make your point.

No..... no replacement vehicle .....
Seeing as it took 5 days.... and why if it was in the dealers and they had the parts wouldn't the tech be working on it every day until it was repaired ?...... how big a job is it to change turbos on a L405 ? why would any dealer want to piss off a customer that buys nearly 450K's worth of vehicles from them in 3 years by not fixing it asap ?

 

[Conniesdad]

Probably the one thing we can all agree on is that new vehicles are becoming over complex , less reliable and much more difficult to diagnose and repair than even 10 years ago.... and then you can't get the parts.....a fact that makes it difficult to attract and keep youngsters who are needed to repair them ......same in Agriculture and any decent tech can walk into a dealership and be offered a job.

A chap I know is a top tech with a JLR dealer, he was headhunted from Ford with £5k salary increase and better T&Cs. With bonuses he can't spend it fast enough.
Oh, and as an addition to a previous post, his wife fancied a Range Rover, he was rather unenthusiastic.

 

[OneTenner]

No..... no replacement vehicle .....
Seeing as it took 5 days.... and why if it was in the dealers and they had the parts wouldn't the tech be working on it every day until it was repaired ?...... how big a job is it to change turbos on a L405 ? why would any dealer want to piss off a customer that buys nearly 450K's worth of vehicles from them in 3 years by not fixing it asap ?

Simple fact of 'workshop loading'. It depends on what else is booked in, if it was a complex job then Diag or Master tech only. In addition, there would be other jobs coming in which have to be diagnosed / worked on to keep things moving. it might seem odd but most non-service work is rarely worked on continuously, sometimes for something as simple as additional parts identified as required on strip-down.
I don't have access to Topix any more and without knowing the vehicle specifics I wouldn't like to guess - and which turbo was being replaced.