Land of the free?

#1
In the light of recent calls to review the drug laws I did a bit of reading and came up with a quite startling statistic.
The USA has about 5% of the world population but 20% of the world's prison population. It jails more people than
China and has more prison officers than marines.
Most of this population is made up of low-level drug offenders. Should we be building more prisons to keep up with the war on drugs?
 
#3
I have a funny feeling that even if the whole of the US decriminalised drugs the prisons there would still be full.
As for us. While we continue to see manual work as the preserve of the building site only and rid our selves of low tec industry we will still have a large pool of idle hands.
 
#4
I think we should be building more prisons to provide a proper deterrent to all criminals, not just those involved in drugs.
The latest fashion for legalising drugs is lunacy, a trip to the local mental health unit will show how many people have been affected by drugs and drug induced mental health issues. Whilst I'm not naive enough to say that the stick is the only answer, when all the touchy-feely huggy stuff fails, the state still needs a big stick with which to punish, rather than a wet 'commuinity based' sentance. Its not just the possession/supply offences that the Police deal with daily, its the burglary/robbery/impaired driving/mental health issues/domestics/child neglect/theft/possession of offensive weapon offences that fall out of the 'so what' of drug use. Regardless of whether the drug is legal, the majority of people still need to pay for it, so where does that money come from? Crime.
 
#5
I think we should be building more prisons to provide a proper deterrent to all criminals, not just those involved in drugs.
The latest fashion for legalising drugs is lunacy, a trip to the local mental health unit will show how many people have been affected by drugs and drug induced mental health issues. Whilst I'm not naive enough to say that the stick is the only answer, when all the touchy-feely huggy stuff fails, the state still needs a big stick with which to punish, rather than a wet 'commuinity based' sentance. Its not just the possession/supply offences that the Police deal with daily, its the burglary/robbery/impaired driving/mental health issues/domestics/child neglect/theft/possession of offensive weapon offences that fall out of the 'so what' of drug use. Regardless of whether the drug is legal, the majority of people still need to pay for it, so where does that money come from? Crime.
most smokers and jakebags dont seem to have to fund it through crime. so how do you want to try and break the cycle of offending? more of the same? no xbox's in prison! that'll do it!

how much more are you willing to pay in taxes to stamp out drug use?
 
#6
most smokers and jakebags dont seem to have to fund it through crime. so how do you want to try and break the cycle of offending? more of the same? no xbox's in prison! that'll do it!

how much more are you willing to pay in taxes to stamp out drug use?
As said earlier in my post, engagement of all agencies - drug rehab units/charities etc. The majority of users in deprived areas fund their use through crime, the stick of prison is that if they're banged up for 10 years, they're not going to be climbing through your window after your laptop!
 
#7
As said earlier in my post, engagement of all agencies - drug rehab units/charities etc. The majority of users in deprived areas fund their use through crime, the stick of prison is that if they're banged up for 10 years, they're not going to be climbing through your window after your laptop!
for 5-8 years, then they start getting out again. by increasing jail terms for stuff like this you only create a longer delay between re-offending, which would only lower crime for 2 or 3 years before you go through one full cycle, you dont stop the re-offending itself. looking at other western nations which have much more severe penalties for drug use than us it doesnt look like they have much lesser drug issues. i just dont think more of the same will work because its failed miserably for 40 years and we've hardly made a dent (personally my opinion changed after watching "our drugs war" and listening to the head of the scottish drug enforcement agency saying that if you asked him to get 3% of drugs of the street he could not achieve it).

i'm not willing to get taxed 10% more so that we can stamp drug use out so i think its time to try something completely different.


p.s. i realise we wont agree as its a pretty polarising subject i'm just trying to spell out my reasoning.
 
#8
As said earlier in my post, engagement of all agencies - drug rehab units/charities etc. The majority of users in deprived areas fund their use through crime, the stick of prison is that if they're banged up for 10 years, they're not going to be climbing through your window after your laptop!
Legalised drugs could be prescribed to registered addicts..paid for by breaking up plods empire a bit seeing as crime would fall overall.
Dismantling the illegal drug Industry has got to be a priority, and a better way needs to be found than a " war on drugs" that has claimed 57,000 lives in mexico in the last 6 years alone.
I mean... a 200 billion a year industry with prices kept artificially high by prohibition...no wonder parts of Mexico are at war to keep it going.
 
#9
p.s. i realise we wont agree as its a pretty polarising subject i'm just trying to spell out my reasoning.
Fair one, and I get your arguement. We need to look at what we can do to stop offending, as prevention is better than cure.
 
#10
.........i just dont think more of the same will work because its failed miserably for 40 years and we've hardly made a dent .........

i'm not willing to get taxed 10% more so that we can stamp drug use out so i think its time to try something completely different.
The recent evidence presented to the Select Committee was that drug use in the UK is at its lowest since 1996, so something does seem to be working. The Committee however was split on what to do and only the grandstanding prick, Keith Vas, forced through the proposal that something must be done in form of a Royal Commission. The committee took advice from richard Branson and the monumental throbber "Little booky wooky" Brand - two people who should be the last people to listen to.

We've never has a true "war on drugs" in the UK. Users get little more than a slap on the wrist, a caution at worst. Dealers see their "longer" sentences as a mere occupational hazard, many can go back to their lavish lifestyles. Users should face proper sanctions that will damage their lives - not necessarily jail sentences, but criminal records and lasting damage to their lifestyles. Drug use should be seen and treated as an aggravating factor in crime not an excuse - rehabilitation should be focussed on those that acknowledge that they need help not those that are caught fueling their habit.
 

CanteenCowboy

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
Genetic modification of the plants involved, obviously only works for drugs sourced from plants i.e. marijuana, cocaine and heroin. In the case of the plants currently out there in the world, crop spraying, with an agent which doesn't kill the plant but fucks up it's genetic code, making it either unable to reproduce or produce the active parts which contain drugs.

Might cost a bit of money but probably worth it in the long term.
 
#12
Genetic modification of the plants involved, obviously only works for drugs sourced from plants i.e. marijuana, cocaine and heroin. In the case of the plants currently out there in the world, crop spraying, with an agent which doesn't kill the plant but fucks up it's genetic code, making it either unable to reproduce or produce the active parts which contain drugs.

Might cost a bit of money but probably worth it in the long term.
this would work but i think implementing it could be a bit....tricky. flying through some of the columbian valleys look like scenes from the damb busters!
 

CanteenCowboy

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Both USA and UK have UAV's, some of them relatively cheap, no? Well definitely cheaper than a human pilot, as I don't think we should risk our pilots on this. And some of these new UAVs are very small and maouverable!
 
#15
Genetic modification of the plants involved, obviously only works for drugs sourced from plants i.e. marijuana, cocaine and heroin. In the case of the plants currently out there in the world, crop spraying, with an agent which doesn't kill the plant but fucks up it's genetic code, making it either unable to reproduce or produce the active parts which contain drugs.

Might cost a bit of money but probably worth it in the long term.
And if they **** up the code slightly and it affects other plants- like some of the ones we rely on for food? You're going down a hell of a road if you start this kind of stuff...anyway you would be putting a lot of Americans out of work, I don't think they would like that!
 
#16
Either execute or jail the traffickers and dealers for 50 years. Eradicate the supply, the problem becomes much smaller, if it doesn't go away entirely.
Id say the demand is the problem. A radical soloution would be detox centres where anyone found in posession or intoxicated on drugs could be banged up for 3 weeks to go cold turkey irrespective of what they have taken might produce results. The thought of being away from work for 3 weeks might put off some of the more recreational users.
[Daily Mail mode off]
 
#17
In the light of recent calls to review the drug laws I did a bit of reading and came up with a quite startling statistic.
The USA has about 5% of the world population but 20% of the world's prison population. It jails more people than
China and has more prison officers than marines.
Most of this population is made up of low-level drug offenders. Should we be building more prisons to keep up with the war on drugs?
The real problem is that there is entirely too much profit to be had from the explosion of privatized prisons that have sprung up twixt sea-to-shining-sea.

Two judges (Ciavarella and Conahan) are presently serving time for jailing kids for profit. The business plan is simple - raise a ruckus about tax-payer dollars being spent on jails, replace with private prisons, back-hand the judges to provide more inmates. Sorted.

Judges Plead Guilty in Scheme to Jail Youths for Profit - NYTimes.com
 
#18
Genetic modification of the plants involved, obviously only works for drugs sourced from plants i.e. marijuana, cocaine and heroin. In the case of the plants currently out there in the world, crop spraying, with an agent which doesn't kill the plant but fucks up it's genetic code, making it either unable to reproduce or produce the active parts which contain drugs.

Might cost a bit of money but probably worth it in the long term.
Day late and a dollar short.

The drug cartels have been genetically modifying Erythroxylaceae for years now.

New super strain of coca plant stuns anti-drug officials [Archive] - Bluelight
 
#19
As everyone here, regardless of their view acknowledges, a multi faceted policy on drugs should be implemented. We differ on what policies should be put in place, my take;

1. Legalise all drugs, ensure quality supply and tax drugs accordingly. but not so much as too raise the price above its current street value.

2. Sell drugs from licensed premises, whose sole purpose is to sell those products.

3. Make it illegal to consume those drugs, anywhere but on private property. Increase the jail term to 10 years for failure to comply for a first offence. 12 for a second etc....

4. Increase sentences for unlicenced dealers to 30 years to life with seizure of all assets. Everything!

5. The licensed premises will have a rehab officer present who can advise drug users if they wish to give up. This would be funded by ring fenced revenue from the sale of drugs.


Just thought these up on the spur of the moment, so feel free to pick it apart!
 

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