Lady Sappers

Discussion in 'Sappers' started by sigstab, Mar 23, 2005.

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  1. I was reading another topic about women in the forces on another forum and it made me wonder!
    Are there women in the corps? Are they cbt engr trained? Has anyone ever had the pleasure of being on a bridging camp, with a bunch of girlies around the top panel?
    Or are women exempt from the heavy work, engr type??

    Just wondering?
  2. Yes there are women in the Corps, although not Combat Engineers, but surveyers.

    In the TA there are more and they do other jobs like C3S, driving and plant work, which they do well. Nobody would expect a woman to move some of the heavier bits of kit in the same way that a bloke has to and so it would be wrong to do so. The same goes for some men as well, but they don't have a choice.

    There are no doubt some women out there that would disagree with me, and I don't particularly care. If you can do the job, fine, you can do it. But if you say you can and can't, why the hell should the rest have to work harder to carry you, just so you can say that you CAN do it?

    I just think it's more about getting the job done than it is about being PC.
  3. I would have to agree with you plant pilot. It's a shame the govt/mod dont take a similar approach to their employment policies.
    If a woman is capable of hauling mgb around an exersise area, then let her wear the badge. Simple.
    If she's not let her join the signals.
    Equal rights, equal tasking!

  4. Apparently the first female Sapper completed her Armoured course at Bovvy a few months ago and did very well.
    We must apply the same principles as we are supposed to do with female Officers. Forget about the gender, treat the soldier as a Sapper, if he/she can get the job done without gender bias or special dispensation then get on with it. If he/she can't then they should be elsewhere.
    The old and bold need to look at the quality (or lack thereof) of some of our male Sappers before geting on the high horse about women in the Corps. Surely a girl who decides she wants to be a Sapper must have a fair bit of determination to enter a fairly tough area of the Army rather than the AGC,RLC, R Sigs, RAMC etc. Good luck to them.
  5. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

    Not true any more PP.

    There are about 2 dozen non-commissioned female sappers in the Corps; a figure that is rising. All will do Cbt 0-3 at BEW. Whilst it is true that a large proportion have gravitated into the 'clever' or design trades, there are armd engrs (see above) and POMs.

    I take the point about top panels on MGBs, although the DS configuration of the MGB is no longer a part of the regular inventory.
  6. i always said support troop squatted to p1ss.

    and women in with the oily monsters ........... oh dear.
  7. This is probably one of the few areas where the TA has more experience...we have had RE-badged birds for a few years now and whilst I'm not sure whether they are ME(Cbt)s as it post-dates my time in a Cbt Engr Fd Sqn I have done bridging with them before in other units.

    Perhaps it resulted in a slightly slower build or a bit more work for the peniswearers but the ones who weren't totally pathetic seemed to manage alright I think.

    MGB is more or less out now though isn't it, anyway?
  8. I think you'll find that there are a few girlies in the TA engineers who are ME(Cbt) streamed. They have to be to be eligible for promotion within the Field Troops - at my unit there is a LCpl & a Cpl who are female & ME (Cbt), as well as 2 female LCpl's who are ME(Dvr) & ME(POM).

    As long as they can do their job I can't see a problem
  9. Rumour has it we also have our first Regular female SNCO as well. Well a geo-geek anyway.
  10. I don't have a problem with that, and have always said very much the same. However, with that very policy there is a problem. If some young ladies decide to go along that route and aren't siuted to the heavy work, do they get weeded out in training and offered other trades. Opening the training staff to being labled as sexist. Or are they let through the net to save the corp the embarrassment of a sexist slur?

    If they fail a higher proportion of women than men it is something that will be picked up by the system and the inevitable introduction of 'gender fair' standards as opposed to the 'gender free' standards that should be the case. After all, they are supposed to be doing the same job.

    That in itself would lead to:-
    The question is should we be settling for a 'slower build' or 'more work' for anyone else in the section? Equallity, yes. Lowering of standards?
  11. Nowt wrong with having Chicks with the Cap Badge. As long as they can do the work, drink, fight and swear, then alles gut! If we have to start becoming politically correct like the AGC tend to be, then they can do one.

    However they can definately fkoff if they ever think I will call a female Sapper a Lady. Just doesnt go with the Territory really..I mean, whatever would the Corps forefathers think!
  12. I had just finished my tankies cse in 1998 when the 1st female engr joined i went to 63 at gib and she was going through her B3 then! She was always at the back for phiz and at the time wasnt allowed to do mines or bridging (2 principle roles of our corps) The only reason she made it through was because she was carried! I am sorry to say it if there was not as much attention on the fact that she was a female she probably would not have even got past week 2 before being back coursed! I am not sexist by a long shot! I know women fitter than me i wont be shy about that but just because they are able to run does that make them engineers? No we genreally dont run we lift, we griz and we graft! If the women in question can do that they welcome to the CRE if they cant then re badge!!
  13. No....but it's hard to say whether or not it was slower, so "perhaps".

    However...same applies to useless male specimens. It always seems to me that I end up doing a little more than my fair share anyway. Not a complaint or anything - just a perception.
  14. However, the male will be binned off the course if they are not up to standard without the possibility of it being picked up as sexual discrimination. You can turn round to a male who's not pulling their weight without it being percieved as sexual discrimination.

    My point is, as long as all people are treated the same, not with kid gloves or less harsh because of the fear of being labled as sexist, racist, tallist, shortist, specist, gwarist or any other '-ist' that anyone would like to think up.

    In the current political climate, you can't even give a complete 'waster' the physical encouragement he needs to get the job done without being called a bully.... adding females that may not be able to get the job done is only going to add to the difficult job we have to do.

    The bottom line is that the job has to be done as quickly and efficiently as possible and one day, maybe one day soon, it's going to have to be done under fire again, the longer the build the longer the section is under fire and they are all in danger. ANYTHING that detracts from that shouldn't be allowed. You have to look at your section and ask yourself if you were in that situation, would you have that person in your section. If the answer's 'no' then they shouldn't be there.
  15. I really agree with the principle here... trouble is it can only work in practice if we are as a group really not prejudiced and can be relied on for our objectivity. From my experience, (having left the Corps in '98 after 23 years), we still as a Corps were predjudiced against "Islamic" and "Tropical " types until '91 at least. Bring on the day when we can easily say "fcuk of you lazy slapper / [insert distant orgin insult of choice]", and also present the "Best Sapper" award to coloured girlie, both on the same intake. :!: