Lack of Moral Fibre

Discussion in 'The NAAFI Bar' started by 58_Pattern, Apr 1, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Are there any other Officers or SNCO's that have grave cause for concern about the backbone and suitability of young recruits joining today. I was back in England and was on the train and earwigged some Chav Scum from WFR talling about drugs/pot/cider/slags and their unit in Catterick on a train with nil concern about PerSec. They boasted about cannabis in Catterick and slappers in Notingham that loved squaddies. It was v sad. The young lads had foul mouths and bought disrepute onto the the Battalion. Not on my watch Grrrrrrrrr. Sorry WFR is the Worcestshire & Sherwood Forresters, a fine Regt.
     
  2. did you put them straight?
     
  3. OR find out where the easy women & good drugs where :?: :?: :?: :?:
     
  4. I suspect its inevitable that modern society and its failures is being introduced to the military system. There would have been a time when the Sgt's and Wo's would have ruled with an iron fist. Unfortunately, now that the liberals and do gooders have the backing of the European courts, the control mechanism is frightened of itself.

    The worrying thing is that these chavs will soon be in control of young and impressionable people....

    I rememeber being at Blandford for a short stint, there was a block there (Anson I recall). It was condemed but was still used to house the new blood. It was like a ghetto. One guy was a pat time DJ!! and had his full deck set up blarring out techno till god knows when. Some of the lasses would go in on a saturday night, slashed out of their scalley skulls and take part in gang bangs! I know of someone being attacked with a broken bottle whilst he was in bed ..... but where were the MP's or orderly officer with his minions? Up at the guard hut beasting some poor sod for not bulling their boots up to the 3rd eyelet!!!!!!!!
     
  5. its only what us old farts talked about - less the drugs!!
     
  6. The trouble is, we (the Army) have such a reputation about us at the moment, and the attitudes that these young soldiers show just re-inforces the public opinion of us. A quiet word in their ear about Persec and such-like, although required, can be dangerous. At fear of a total ribbing think of this - The young soldiers are pi$$ed. JNCO/SNCO/Offr has a quiet word telling them to keep the talk down, nothing dramatic, just a

    "Listen guys, you're talking too loud and talking about things that shouldn't be heard in public, keep it down eh"

    Chav (pi$$ed) soldiers don't like being told this and kick off - you end up battered, knifed or whatever. So not only are you in a bad way, but the reputation of the Army is brought down even more. Especially when the Scum have the headline "UNDISCIPLINED SOLDIERS BEAT UP NCO".

    I would like to think that I would tell these guys to wind it in, but the worry of the outcome would still be there. How much weight do you think your rank will carry whilst on leave, out of uniform, with soldiers of a different unit/garrison that you'll probably never see again (and who probably think their reputation (respect?) amongst their peers would go sky-high)?


    edited to add - (And please don't tell me this would never happen, or that you could handle them all - I'm trying to keep it real!)
     
  7. And whose lack of moral fibre are we discussing? The gobby scrotes that exist (and always have existed) in HMF, or the other soldiers/NCOs who are prepared to turn a blind eye whilst tutting inwardly to themselves?

    Of course it can be a risk to approach a group of young men who are behaving loutishly, particularly if they've been drinking. But are we not in the business of leadership? Do we not believe in moral and physical courage? Are we becoming so selfish that we won't risk verbal or physical conflict in order to right wrongs? Who is going to educate these louts and guide their moral compass through life if not those of us with higher standards and the courage to make a point? A line needs to be drawn in the sand and it is the responsibility of those of us who know where it is to point it out.

    Sadly, I've been in exactly the same scenario on occasions. I've sometimes intervened and sometimes not, so I can't moralise too much I suppose. Often I'm influenced by the local environment and whether I have my kids with me - who wants to be injured or humiliated in front of their kids? However, I once intervened when I had the kids with me because I thought it was better to let them see their dad being beaten up standing up for what he believed in, rather than walk by and accept the shoddy influence the scrotes subliminally had on my kids' lives.

    Ultimately, if I'm unhappy with a situation then I bear responsibility for influencing it - or I have no right to complain about it.

    ARNJ
     
  8. skid - agreed. it's about moral courage and personal bravery. legs, obviously one has to worry about consequences, but i would feel far safer bollocking a bunch of off duty soldiers than a bunch of potentially weapon-carrying teenage hoodies (and trust me, there are lots around nottingham). soldiers at least have some moral compunction about them - give you a kicking? maybe, if you handled it badly. knife you out of the blue? very, very unlikely. and how hard would it be to track them down through their unit afterwards if they did kick off with you? 58 knew their battalion etc.

    it would largely depend on the environment, as skid said. if we were the only people in the carriage, i might ignore them. if they were offending members of the public and bringing the army into disrepute with their loutish behaviour, you have a duty as a SNCO / Officer to step in and say something. if you don't do it, who will? and how much of a cowardly c*nt will you feel when some 80 year old WW2 vet finally goes and says something to them?

    in the scenario 58 described, i would be less worried about the persec/chav/slags aspects. but i f*cking hate drug-using soldiers. as far as i am concerned, all the honourable rules about not bubbling people etc go out the window with drug users. i would happily drop the little c*nts in the deepest sh*t possible, and hope they get booted out on their arrses.

    we don't need people like that in the army.

    but 58, i have to refer back to skid's point - whose lack of moral fibre are you alluding to? because they clearly have a standards issue, but you just ignoring it and coming to have a moan on arrse doesn't put yourself in the best light either... :(

    i remember what i was once told about bravery. it's not about never being scared. it's about being sh*t scared, but doing it anyway.
     
  9. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    CR,your on the money.
    Yesteday I was chatting to a Colour in the Cheshires about the same thing.The Army seems to care more about new blood than retaining the older,more experienced soldier.He told me that he has 2 lance jacks for every 1 soldier & that the is a lot of folk who are disillusioned with the Army life.The standard of the soldiers now is not as high as a few years ago.
    I remember a few years ago,the was a YTS 'kid' posted to the MT section.He got charged for being 2 min late for stag & he could'nt understand why! Even after it was explained to him that the guy he was replacing had to do a extra hour because of his tardiness,he did'nt grasp the concept.He was then charged another 2 times again for being late,not just for Guard but for show parade & eventually given a admin discharge for being unsuitable for military service.
     
  10. I had this very chat with one of my lot on the pish the other night - they cant get to grips with the fact that I beast them all the time about getting the basics right - not loosing kit, cleaning up, working tidy, not being late, turn-out, respect, etc etc......

    They didnt understand my alarm when they thought all these ideas were 'bone' and not important - i nearly flipped my lid - the very fundamentals (the list of what I get on thier cases about is much longer beleive me....), of what makes a soldier, and more importantly I reckon, keeps one alive, are considered a waste of time by this generation - I fear for the safety of our country once my, (our?) generation up-sticks and leaves - the current one isn't going to make a very good Army - I KNOW the old guys used to moan about the likes of me when I was a kid, but surely, I wasn't THIS bad?..............

    I'm sadenned but at the same time releived that in just over 3 years time, it wont be my problem anymore, but beleive me, for as long as I'm in, I'm going to keep banging on about the basics in the hope that one or two listen to me and carry it on..............
     
  11. Perhaps playing devil's advocate here but it's so easy to sit behind a screen and convince ourselves that given the same or similar circumstances we'd handle it differently. There used to be a time where if you tackled someone for, say, dropping litter you could count on others around you to back you up, sadly these days it's all too often not the case. I've questioned those who have pushed into a queue only to receive abuse but be ignored by others in the same queue - why? Anything for an easy life perhaps? What a shame if society really is becoming as insular as this.

    Parents instilling the value of good manners, respect and personal integrity in their youngsters appears to have fallen by the wayside to such an extent that even a gentle reminder by someone else would be so alien that an inflamed reaction would be the likely outcome and no lesson learned at all.

    Edited for minor window licking spelling misstayke which was irritating me.
     
  12. There is a lad on my mates building site who is currently AWOL from WFR having complained of drugs being rife at Wellington Bks (been in the national press) as well as thieving throughout the ranks and will not return until this behaviour stops. He feels he has been let down by the Army. What he has failed to mention that he himself is out every weekend in my town smashed out his head on drugs (have proof) and has a criminal record for theft!! People like him should be shot, w1nker!!! Funny its WFR again!!
     
  13. I thought you might be on a site that talks about lack of moral fibre ron!!

    Anyway I hate the lack of moral fibre it takes to sign off and hold the Regiment to ransom until you get what you want ie posting/promotion.
     
  14. Sure, you see this generation, my generation, with lacking a basic sense of respect and most importantly sense of responsibility. We have grown up in a culture that says nothing is your fault. Faulty paving stone, sue the council,;drop litter, the street sweeper will pick it up; see someone getting mugged, leave alone - the police will be there in an hour or two.

    Yet, the blame has to fall on society as a whole. Its the fact that no one dares intervene that these things happen. I spent a long time in New York and used to see people laying into others for dropping litter and you know what it just happened less. I'll never forget seeing some 80 year old lady bawling at a fur protester with a spray can about being hypocritical and wearing leather shoes to the point that he had to run off.

    In London, i've seen teenage chinese tourists being beaten up on buses and no-one lifting a finger to help. It just depresses me. In the Army and in society, people will only recognise the standards they should adhear to if people around them demonstrates those standards and that includes picking people up when they do something obiously wrong. You can't just throw your hands up and despair, when it comes down to your generation that are the ones who should have been guiding this one.
     
  15. You see a group of lads being loud and irritating, you go over and have a word

    " keep it down lads, this isnt the place"

    you get turned upon and attacked

    you defend yourself in accordance with self defence rules

    you get arrested

    you get hung out to dry and made an example of

    you pay compensation to the little scrotes and your career is tarnished.

    Welcome to britain run by bloody do gooders and the blame culture :cry: