Labour's Great Betrayal

Check the last Cabinet - have at look at Mandelbum and the rest of the swillers. Why would you assume they have your interests at heart? Look up Dennis Canavan MP - a local MP who your lot got rid off - FFS the man was Socialist. Look who succeeded him - Eric Joyce. Canavan was my Maths teacher at school and whilst he was a ******* socialist he actually believed - the kiss of death in New Labour.

Why would you assume I would doff my cap and tug my forelock to anyone? I'll give you a hint - I wouldn't. When I was in the Army I would salute a member of the Royal Family, an Officer of compatible or senior rank and acknowldege a salute by a person of junior rank by returning the complement. In a formal parade I would even salute a scumbag politician if it was ordered whilst I was on parade.

You know Foghorn Leghorn was a big chicken don't you :)

Because you touched a nerve with the class warrior jibe!
(tying my ramble loosely into this thread )

New Labour haven't betrayed me any more than any other political party has or will. Modern politicians all seem to be cut from the same cloth. Some of the policies implemented by NL would have made Thatcher proud. All that kowtow-ing to the banks and so forth for example.....
But you are,of course, of the opinion that Tories are better-because you Sir, is an ex hofficer. The only way I'll see Sandhurst is if i volunteer for an instructors post.

AND

He may be a chicken-but Sam is a Ginger midget!
 

The_Magician

Old-Salt
Because you touched a nerve with the class warrior jibe!
(tying my ramble loosely into this thread )

New Labour haven't betrayed me any more than any other political party has or will. Modern politicians all seem to be cut from the same cloth. Some of the policies implemented by NL would have made Thatcher proud. All that kowtow-ing to the banks and so forth for example.....
But you are,of course, of the opinion that Tories are better-because you Sir, is an ex hofficer. The only way I'll see Sandhurst is if i volunteer for an instructors post.

AND

He may be a chicken-but Sam is a Ginger midget!

Bigjim

I have just come to the conclusion you are a looney lefty....

Magic
 
Nah, It's just hard to see where a multi millionaire would have any of my, or any other average Joe's, interests at heart.
That's along with his gang of millionaires cabinet.
You may continue to doff your cap and pull your forelock because he's your "better", but I dont buy it. And I dont buy his "big community" lets make people volunteer load of bollocks either.
New Labour was shite, I'll admit-and I never trusted Blair. But Major,Thatcher etc and this bunch of pricks. Do me a favour!

AND

Foghorn Leghorn is loads better than Yosemite Sam!

Back in a Bit......

Back now,
And another thing. my Dad is a schoolteacher and a Trade Unionist along with several members of my family so he has had plenty to say about Cameron and Blair-not much of it has been positive.
I joined the Army because of there being no work where I came from and I'm not a state scrounger. I blame that lack of work that made me join up on the Tory Gvmt of the 80's. They had a massive recession too-remember?And more unemployed......
Anyway, I digress. This lot are trying to **** my pension up and I'm against them. Whatever your reason for voting Tory-I can only assume its because you're already stinking rich. I dont reckon they'll be voted in next time because people are going to get hammered in the pocket after living high on the hogs back.

So there!

I'll come up with a point to this ramble in relation to the thread I swear!
Hmm.. the two bits highlighted certainly explain a lot of your indoctrination in the Socialist Worker type mentality! As I have posted on other threads, I probably come from a much poorer background than yourself, an area of S. Wales which was described (after I left it) as a SLUM. Fortunate to have a modicum of intelligence, I passed the old 11+ and went to Grammar School where I picked up a reasonable education despite having to leave just before my 16th birthday to contribute to the Families income! On returning from Africa I spent many years working by day and going to various night schools to get Management Qualifications, this enabled me to get reasonably good positions in Purchasing & Purchasing Management where I saw first hand the results of militant unions destroying British industries! Yes, not all employers were enlightened but the several I knew who were, actually couldn't get the Luddite minded Unions to agree to plant modernisation & investment which would only work if operated on a multishift basis, this despite offers of payrises & shift differentials being on the table! It was the only way these companies could have competed on price with similar factories abroad! Without exception all of these Companies closed over the next few years putting ALL of the workers out of jobs!
I remember too well the years of strikes called by Unions & leaders like Scargill, Jack Jones, Red Robbo et al, many of whom it turns out were sponsored by Moscow, Gaddafi & others who had a vested interest in seeing Britain fail!
So dont blame it all on the millionaire Etonians, try looking at the restrictive practices enforced by the Unions in Shipbuilding, coal mining, Steel production, the Car industry etc!! The Banks over the last 13 years or so were encouraged by the Labour Govt. to lend, lend, lend without a thought for repayment or sufficient regulation to bolster the criminally inept chancellor Browns artificial growth figures! His sale of our gold, at the lowest price for years has cost us Billions of Pounds! Rather than ensuring our young people were leaving school with the right sort of qualifications to fill jobs, they have allowed much of the education system to be so politicised and PC it has failed our children! They have then COVERTLY encouraged immigrants to come with many of them taking jobs which our young people should have been able to do!
 
So you are basically blaming all that is wrong with Britain on the last 13 years of government and the trade unions and nothing else. I wouldn't portray myself as a Socialist-more left of centre. Why do you allude to encouragement from Russia and Libya?
Trade Unions were simply formed for the equal representation and fair pay for the working man(although admittedly corrupt and shiftless-whats left of them-Thatch!).
If the work has been outsourced to our competitors it's because they are de-unionised for the most part and have had their human rights damaged beyond recognition. I could bang on about SA coal miners/anything from a Chinese sweat shop/Indian child Labour. But you already know that these are the "competitors" of which you write. Trade Unions are about protecting the little guy and re distributing the wealth from profit of the factory owner.
British Leyland management ,for example wasnt, responsible for its demise at all in your opinion then? Or Rover for that matter.....
Anyway, I have to go (minding the kids). I'll be back for my tongue lashing later-blue nose!

Solidarity Brother!
 
So you are basically blaming all that is wrong with Britain on the last 13 years of government and the trade unions and nothing else. I wouldn't portray myself as a Socialist-more left of centre. Why do you allude to encouragement from Russia and Libya?
Trade Unions were simply formed for the equal representation and fair pay for the working man(although admittedly corrupt and shiftless-whats left of them-Thatch!).
If the work has been outsourced to our competitors it's because they are de-unionised for the most part and have had their human rights damaged beyond recognition. I could bang on about SA coal miners/anything from a Chinese sweat shop/Indian child Labour. But you already know that these are the "competitors" of which you write. Trade Unions are about protecting the little guy and re distributing the wealth from profit of the factory owner.
British Leyland management ,for example wasnt, responsible for its demise at all in your opinion then? Or Rover for that matter.....
Anyway, I have to go (minding the kids). I'll be back for my tongue lashing later-blue nose!

Solidarity Brother!
Now we know you're a loon. They were and still are run for the benefit of the Scargills and Red Robbo's at the top. Graft & rent-seeking. That's what they're for. They had no interest in the plight of the working man.
 
. Trade Unions are about protecting the little guy and re distributing the wealth from profit of the factory owner.
That's possibly the bit the Unions didn't understand. A Company has to have something left over after paying all the bills. It's called investment for a rainy day. The unions nicking all the spare cashs for their members today betrayed all their members tomorrows. Since the unions pretty much spent up to about 2011 refusing to accept that sometimes you have to change or there's no jobs for tomorrow.

I mean current union thinking is still "Strike to protect low paid workers". And what does that do ? SFA. Brains is needed. Councils waste money hand over fist so expose the waste and force savings to protect jobs. Offer savings yourself. Offer a little bit more for a little bit less and you'll be amazed at how much good will you can generate.

Shining example in the Aus-based Metro strike where staff worked, but refused to collect any fares or check any passes. Free rides all day for the workers and no money for the bosses. Happy Public, unhappy bosses. Unlike here where most Londoners despise the idle work shy union staff on the underground. (quote from a London based friend)

I
 
So you are basically blaming all that is wrong with Britain on the last 13 years of government and the trade unions and nothing else. I wouldn't portray myself as a Socialist-more left of centre. Why do you allude to encouragement from Russia and Libya?
Trade Unions were simply formed for the equal representation and fair pay for the working man(although admittedly corrupt and shiftless-whats left of them-Thatch!).
If the work has been outsourced to our competitors it's because they are de-unionised for the most part and have had their human rights damaged beyond recognition. I could bang on about SA coal miners/anything from a Chinese sweat shop/Indian child Labour. But you already know that these are the "competitors" of which you write. Trade Unions are about protecting the little guy and re distributing the wealth from profit of the factory owner.
British Leyland management ,for example wasnt, responsible for its demise at all in your opinion then? Or Rover for that matter.....
Anyway, I have to go (minding the kids). I'll be back for my tongue lashing later-blue nose!

Solidarity Brother!
You really are brainwashed with all that socialist crap, if you cared to read & understand my post, you would possibly understand that I was talking initially of an era prior to the emergence of China & India as major competitors, the countries involved were other W. Europeans, who also had Trade Unions, but Unions who did not have the Blinkers of uber socialism and whilst watching for the interests of their members realised it was not particularly sensible to suffocate the owners with restrictive practices thus killing the goose that layed the golden egg of paid employment as did the Luddite type unions in Britain!
One of my uncles was also a shopsteward in a union in S. Wales, a skilled craftsman who had served a 5 year apprenticeship, he was made redundant, I happened to be dealing with a nearby company who I knew were desperately short of his particular skills so got him an interview, his response was not to even turn up to the interview as it was about 7 miles away from where he lived and he didn't want to have to travel that far each day despite the fact the pay at the new company was better!!! Needless to say I ,didn't bother to try to help him again, it was just this sort of stupidity that many of the British Unions displayed! As for the involvement of Russia & Libya I suggest you look up some of the histories of Scargill & Jack Jones in the 70's & 80's!
 
Alright, I'll concede that the unions are crap. But if you scrap the Unions to get rid of the Orwellian "pigs", then the little guy is left at the mercy of the Orwellian "farmer".
At least the pigs have the pretence of having the masses interests at heart.....
I probably have some leftie utopia naivety throwback from my unionised upbringing.
I reckon you'll all be fed up with ConDem soon though.
 
I thought part of Orwell's point is that the pigs were far worse than the farmer they replaced...

One should pick one's analogies carefully
 
No, I meant it!
I'm by no means suggesting a return to the 70's would save us with reference to my trade union waffle.

But if the pigs hadn't been ******* then the farm would have been better off without the farmer........

I better watch meself-this kind of talk'll get me barred from the mess and I can't afford to drink anywhere else!
 
Now we know you're a loon. They were and still are run for the benefit of the Scargills and Red Robbo's at the top. Graft & rent-seeking. That's what they're for. They had no interest in the plight of the working man.
Scargill started the 1984 strike with a large union and a small house, he finished it with a small union and a big house.
Speaks volumes doesn't it?
 
The same NHS that hasn't improved in the last 15 years despite vast sums of cash hurled at it?
The same NHS that is the worlds 3rd largest employer but stil has more managers on wards than nurses?
The same NHS where 24% of births are to foreign born parents?
The same NHS that has become a free healthcare resource to any ****** who can get ashore at Dover?

As far as I am concerned you can sack 25% of NHS staff tomorow and there will be little negative impact. It will be just as shit as it is today.
In the last 5 years I have spent a full week each in three of the capitals hospitals. In all 3 weeks, I have been on wards with English patients, and been tended well by staff from the UK, some commonwealth, and a few further afield. Apart from the awful food, the care has been superb. The Hospitals were, Mayday (Croydon) and St Georges (Tooting) twice. These hospitals are allegedly overrun with darkies on the lam, and staffed overwhelmingly by similar. Well thanks to those darkies, I am perfectly healthy now.

Apart from the grub, my experience of the South London 'immigrant staffed', 'overrun by immigrants' NHS is one of superb care, short, almost non-existent waiting lists. I fear that after that **** Cameron and his cronies has there way, no-one will get any care until they wave a platinum card and shout 'Bupa'

So Jagman, you happy to pay again for what you have already paid for? Because that is the best you can expect with CMD's proposed reforms. Your taxes and NI will never go down, but when you pitch up at hospital, you might have to swipe a credit card before you get a bed.
 

JoeCivvie

ADC
RIP
...
Trade Unions were simply formed for the equal representation and fair pay for the working man(although admittedly corrupt and shiftless-whats left of them-Thatch!).... Trade Unions are about protecting the little guy and re distributing the wealth from profit of the factory owner.
When they were first formed I think you were right. Unfortunately TU's have evolved in to political entities lead by people who care less about the working man than CMD, and more about feathering their own nests.

For example:
Trade union leaders threatening a 'class war' take home £100,000 pay - Dozens of trade union leaders threatening a ‘class war’ over job cuts take home salaries in excess of £100,000, it has been revealed. July 2010

Related Tags:Bob CrowunionsalaryDerek Simpsonhome

Their salaries are often boosted by healthy pensions and perks such as rent-free homes, a report claimed.

The TaxPayers’ Alliance labelled the 38 union bosses pocketing six-figure salaries hypocrites, given their lives of ‘well-paid luxury’.

Bob Crow, head of the transport union the RMT, takes home £105,679 a year. The average Tube driver earns £40,000 a year and station staff £26,000 but Mr Crow wants his members to launch a ‘class war’ in the wake of a two-year public service pay freeze.

While the average civil servant earns £22,850 a year, Mark Serwotka, head of the PCS union which represents them, earns £111,112. The average teacher takes home £32,630 annually but NUT head NUT Christine Blower takes a salary of £124,483.

Derek Simpson of the Unite union lives in an £800,000 grace-and-favour house with his second wife while taking a salary of £120,328 from his members.

Matthew Elliott, of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, said: ‘It is hypocritical for firebrand trade union leaders to be calling for strikes and higher taxes while they themselves live a life of well-paid luxury. It is small wonder they aren’t worried about the tax burden or the national debt when they are so well-off.’

The Trade Unions Congress said it was the TPA that was the secret organisation. ‘Not a single penny of any union general secretary’s pay comes from the taxpayer. If the TPA really spoke for ordinary taxpayers, they would be asking hard questions about the directors of companies who have made themselves mega-rich through the privatisation of public services and PFI deals,’ it added.

And a spokesman for the PCS union said: ‘Mark’s salary is no secret. Our members are certainly made aware. This is not new information.’
 
While the average civil servant earns £22,850 a year, Mark Serwotka, head of the PCS union which represents them, earns £111,112. The average teacher takes home £32,630 annually but NUT head NUT Christine Blower takes a salary of £124,483.
Which is why I recently resigned from his union. Two of his trotskyist friends were recently sacked by UKBA for slagging off UKBA and senior staff and ministers (not that they didn't deserve it) and his union execs send out urgent e-mails telling us to 'man the barricades, prepare for action' etc; and also slagging off another union, the ISU in the process, calling the ISU a 'renegade' union! This Maoist nonsense was the final straw, after the PCS did precisely **** ALL about the most vicious, and probably illegal attack on my and fellow members pay and conditions we have ever seen.

So I resigned and joined the ISU.

Serwotka talks a good fight. But he is a Blairite stooge and of no use whilst a tory sits in No.10. £111K....What a ****...
 
"And a spokesman for the PCS union said: ‘Mark’s salary is no secret. Our members are certainly made aware. This is not new information"

**** off. I've read every journal published by the PCS. I don't recall any mention of Serwotka's £111K+ salary

The utter ******* cnuts. My ISU subs are half what the thieving PCS took.
 
I never said Unions weren't crap. I was talking to my local MP the other day in Parliament (dontchaknow) and I asked him what his expenses were for this year. He told me they were in the region of 58K. Now with a salary of 65K on top, he basically does alright for himself-as you would expect from an elected regional representative.
My point is, he was transparent and accountable for his expense bill and he's got a nice big house in the countryside around here payed for by what he does. Arthur Scargill was elected by the NUM and was their leader during the miners strike of 84. In reference to the Trade Unions leaders-its not Communism, they should be payed the salary of the position they fill- voted by the Union members themselves-should they not?
If thats in excess of 110K then so be it.


I'm only being "devils advocate" so don't take the above too seriously.....
 

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