Labours Britain

H&SW or more Institutional Racism?

Courtesy of an online source

The Telegraph said something remarkably similar to this!

I saw boy shot and waited while police decided if it was safe, says minister
By John Steele, Home Affairs Correspondent
(Filed: 08/04/2005)

A government minister witnessed the gun crime which has blighted a number of inner-city black communities when he tried to help the victim of a drive-by shooting.

David Lammy, the minister for constitutional affairs and Labour MP for Tottenham, north London, rushed with others to help the 17-year-old victim and awaited the arrival of the emergency services.

David Lammy: 'I am demanding answers from the police'
Mr Lammy, 32, one of the few black members of the Government, was deeply dissatisfied with the police response to the shooting, early last Sunday on the Broadwater Farm estate.

He has asked Sir Ian Blair, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, why officers waited outside the estate for 12 minutes before entering with paramedics.

The shooting occurred outside the Broadwater Farm Community Centre in Tottenham, where Mr Lammy had been attending the Haringey Ghanaian community's annual celebration.

The victim, who had also been attending the event with his parents, had congregated with friends outside when a car pulled up. He was hit by a single gunshot and is now recovering from his injury.

"I understand that a car drove past with some youths in it with masks on, and one gunshot was fired into the crowd and it hit this boy," Mr Lammy said. "I was just leaving when this happened.

"People rushed outside, but no one there had first aid. He was in incredible agony, screaming in pain, drifting in and out of consciousness."

Mr Lammy and others tried to stem the youth's bleeding. However, he said, they saw blue flashing lights further up the road, where police had stopped short of the centre.

Mr Lammy said he drove up to the officers, where he saw two police vehicles, an ambulance and a paramedic response car waiting at a rendezvous point.

Police had received a call at 12.04am and two local officers arrived eight minutes later at the edge of the estate, about 200 yards from victim. They did not approach him for a further 12 minutes, by which time other officers and ambulance crews had arrived. Mr Lammy said he insisted that they went to the scene.

Mr Lammy said: "I am demanding answers from the police as to why they arrived on scene, stopped short of the estate and waited for 10 minutes while a boy lay bleeding from a gunshot wound.

"The community perceive that they were not being policed. I am told police were making a risk assessment, but this has had enormous implications for community relations. If this young man had died, this would be a much more serious situation." Mr Lammy has written to Sir Ian and made a formal written complaint to Chief Supt Stephen Bloomfield, the Haringey borough commander.

London Ambulance Service said: "In line with protocol, an ambulance and response car were sent to a nearby rendezvous point organised by the police. They remained there until police confirmed it was safe to proceed."

Scotland Yard's Operation Trident squad, which deals with gun crime in the black community, is investigating the shooting.

Mr Bloomfield said he understood the frustrations and perceptions of Mr Lammy at the scene. "I understand the concern of the community when they can see blue flashing lights at the end of the road. They wanted an immediate response," said Mr Bloomfield.

He said it was irrelevant that the incident happened at Broadwater Farm, where Pc Keith Blakelock was killed in a riot in 1985. The issue was rather how a distressed crowd reacted.

"There were 250 people who were frightened and confused. In those circumstances people don't always respond as they do normally," he said.

"Police have to control that situation otherwise it gets much more aggravated. We are concerned not just with the safety of officers but the safety of everyone."
I hasten to remind people of a similar incident last year involving 2 sisters. Exception being they were white so no racial predjudice can be inferred and a 10 min response time to a firearms incident thats good...................didn't that family die despite the best efforts of their neighbour; who had already cleared the area?
Nothing racial about it LWM

It's the Broadwater Farm Estate, and some of the locals are better tooled up than the old Bill.
Your quite right to point that out apart from the issue of accusations of insensitive policing, Racism (Ya know the perceived guns an' blacks etc), the actual hacking to death of a uniformed copper and to cap it all H&SW issues. the Police should have acted sooner?
Before anyone gets too antsy about it, lets remember that one of the key considerations for us going to an incident is the possiblity of follow-on attacks.
Just read it in the torygraph and from what i can make out, the MP is making the age old victims argument (which i sunderstandable but not correct), in that the police should have attended the scene straight away instead of waiting for 10mins 200yrds up the road before they came with paramedics. Granted it must have been intensly infuriating to watch them sit there for 10 mins while a guy is spilling blood in front of you.

However, what people in those situations tend to forget (most likely through the whole trauma of the experience) is that as it was a firearms crime, the first officers on the scene would most likely not have firearms on board their car and as such would have been told to await and armed escort by trained firearms officers. This is simple health and safety procedure in order to prevent any further unnecessary injury or loss of life.

Im just glad the vicitim did not die, otherwise i suspect the reaction would have been far worse.
If we accept that the Police Force and emergency services are going to wait, then Mr Lamey had the option of driving the victim to them. I know there are implications of crime scene, disturbing the casualty etc - but if it stops him bleeding to death it ought to be considered.

First rule of first aid is to remove the danger, if the Police think the most dangerous place is where the shooting occurred then moving the casualty is the right thing in medical terms.

Shame all round, wonder why people want to shoot each other? - it's a funny old world.
Personally I couldn't give a bollocks whether they blazed up blue lights flashing or waited a respectful period of mourning down the road...the real criticism is that this type of crime happens at all, in a country where ownership of hand-guns is meant to have been crudely and brutally stamped out. Starting with the British Olympic Team of course..a very nasty bunch obviously.

Mr Lammy would however I feel sure have been as quick to rattle Sir ian's cage if some weeks prior to this armed police had stopped every BMW tooling around Broadwater Farm with "two-up", in a bid to locate and seize illegally held hand-guns. Have your cake or eat your cake but just make your mind up what you want - and then enable the poor old boys in blue to do the do...tough on ministers, tough on the causes of ministers.

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