labour top up fees and student loans for all students

bbc news
Labour for talks over top-up fees

Students are currently charged a flat fee each academic year
Welsh Assembly Government ministers have said they remain committed to a fair funding system for students, after a defeat over university top-up fees.
On Tuesday, the opposition parties united to defeat Labour in the assembly over the introduction of the fees.

On Thursday, the assembly will study a report commissioned on possible ways of introducing fees in Wales in 2007.

Education Minister Jane Davidson has called for talks with other parties to decide the best system for students.

She said that "quite clearly", the opposition could demonstrate a numerical majority in the assembly and she would listen to that.

Labour has badly misjudged this issue. They must now think again

Nick Bourne

Last year, Ms Davidson set up a commission headed by Professor Teresa Rees to assess a number of different proposals for a fees system in Wales ranging up to a fixed fee of £3,000.

The commission will publish its report on Thursday and Ms Davidson urged other parties to consider its implications.

"We will get the independent report, we will then put a proposition on the table to discuss with all other parties, and I am pleased that the parties have said the door is open for discussion," she said.

"Let's together decide the best system of student support in Wales."

'Wholly rejected'

All UK students are currently charged a flat fee of £1,200 a year, with part or all of the cost met by a local education authority for those from low-income families.

A variable top-up fee of up to £3,000 is to be introduced in England in 2006, but the Welsh Assembly Government pledged not to introduce variable fees during its current term which ends in 2007.

Education Minister Jane Davidson set up the Rees Commission

Tuesday's vote was the assembly government's first defeat after becoming a minority administration when Blaenau Gwent MP and AM Peter Law left Labour.

The Tories' assembly leader Nick Bourne said: "Labour has badly misjudged this issue. They must now think again."

Plaid Cymru's education spokesperson Janet Ryder added: "The notion that somehow this Labour Government has no option other than to charge students fees is one that Plaid Cymru wholly rejects."

Peter Black of the Liberal Democrats said: "All the evidence is that faced with graduating with a debt of £20,000 or more, many people, especially in deprived communities, will not choose to go to college."

A decision on the future of higher education funding in Wales is expected to be made by the assembly government next month.

in my experience , i go the the same uni a lot of miltary use too.
there are lots of problems regarding top up fees and being charged a flat fee to study.

if you go to a government uni , you will recieve all the help .
if you go to uni like my self and all miltary and people who cant a government uni for various reasons you can only recieve only limited help.

i think no matter who you are , if should recieve help from our government instead of getting thousands of pounds in debt like my self .


kindest regards

You go to uni? Why can't you make yourself understood? I thought basic literacy was a requirement for university.

Anyway, graduating with masses of debt is the norm now, it sucks but that's the way it is.
yeah every student leaves with debt these days, unless your're super rich, its not just tutition fees but living costs, accomadation, food etc. And if your like myself studying in London your debt will be higher especially as the 'london allowance' extra on our student loans is a joke. :evil:
Yannie, when you post these stories you should place a link. It looks like the one you C&Ped from was this:

'A government uni' - which ones would these be then? It is possible to gain a BSc at some military training units (Arborfield and Blandford are the two that spring to mind - my apologies to others I haven't mentioned) and Shrivenham is associated with Cranfield. Most universities also carry out some research that is government funded, either directly or via organisations such as Qinetiq, CCLRC and the Wellcome Trust.

Some students recieve funding to their studies from companies in return for pledges to work for those companies for a given length of time, but these are usually because the student has got off their rear-ends and gone out and found those oportunities.

Unfortunately there is a limited amount of cash available to fund everything, therefore I DON'T see why the government should fund all students for the full cost of their courses. It's just another sign of those wanting their 'rights' but not responsibilities. There will always be a need for the government to support universities because of the costs associated with some courses copmpared to others, for instance physics, chemistry and engineering courses require more financial support than most arts courses because of the capital costs involved. Unfortunately there simply can't be 'something for nothing'. Just because students prior to the mid 1980s had a relatively easy time does not imply that this could have continued.

By the way, we do have keys on the keyboard that help produce capital letters and punctuation. It does help when trying to read the posts!
Why should the government pay for people to go to Uni? I believe that students who do degree's that benefit society should get their education for free but at the cost that they work in the public sector for a set time. (Potential doctors working in hospitals as nurses etc).
As an aside, Ive just completed a BSc in engineering which cost me £115 and Im claiming that back from my unit so the moral of the story is quit uni, join up, see the world and try to drink it for 12 years and get qualified! Jobs a good un!
If Yannie is student, and is unable to master basic punctuation, he is clearly not getting value for money for his fees! It does point to one of the reasons why fees have to be charged - as entry standards fall, there are more and more students, and thus less resources to go around.

Free degree courses could be made available by restricting them to subjects which are actually useful to the country, such as medicine, science and engineering. These courses could be subsidised by charging higher fees for meeja studies and other unnecessary courses. Where graduates of free courses choose to leave the country within 5 years, they repay the full costs. Airlines have successfully run this sort of programme with pilots for years.
actually Virobono that is a bloody good Idea.

Couses such as Media Studies, Heritage (re-enacting and stuff), Klingon language and I believe you can study a degree on David Beckham somewhere now. Totally useless. waste of taxpayers money. charge for them.


I had to take out a student loan when I left and went to Uni. As well as opening my Nat West student account (receive "free" 100 quid) I did alright. Admittedly this was in the early 90's but the repayment amount per month was small and the APR was neglible. If you didn't earn a certain amount you didn't start paying it back.
Yes there was a feeling of "being in debt" but at the end of the day, I got my degree, found a relatively good paying job and paid the Govt. back again.
Sparky's idea was current in the old USSR. It did work and people had to go where they were sent. Then again, they didn't p*ss about with Beckham or re-enacting studies either!
Perhaps the best solution would be to ditch the 50% full-time HE target and settle for a more sustainable 25% with improved part-time courses and a vast increase in true apprenticeship type training. There are too many irrelevent courses taught just to make up student numbers to the detriment of "proper" courses in both science and Engineering (look at the number of Chemistry and Physics depts. that are closing) and liberal Arts courses (history, geography and even english aren't doing as well as they could). Part of the problem is the relative ease that non-science A-levels offer, particularly those involving coursework, the lack of rigour here mens that pupils are funnelled towards "soft" courses from the moment they choose their GCSE's.
Companies should be allowed to claim money back from apprentices who've qualified with them but then refuse to work a reasonable return-of-service (headhunting being one of the major reasons for the decline in proper training).
From what I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong, Septics whose parents cannot afford their College/Uni fees go to work at almost anything during the holidays in order that they may continue with their chosen courses. If this is so, could not a similar mindset operate in this country?
Probably not though, our "Students" probably couldn't drag themselves out of the bar/bed if their lives depended on it. Much easier to put all your efforts into getting someone else to pay your way. :evil:
I have 3 children, 1 at University reading Medicine, 1 doing his A Levels hoping to go to University next year and become a Primary School Teacher and 1 still at school. My children are likely to come out of Higher Education with debts that are greater than their annual salarys. I expect the Medic will be OK as Doctors are well paid however Primary School Teachers are not. These Student Loans and other borowings will hang over him for many years blighting his chances of buying a home and getting on the housing ladder. Hopefully when the Top Up Fees are increased to £3000 per annum from their current level of £1150 then graduate salarys will be increased to chance.

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