labour *still* throwing good money after bad...

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/10/id_card_advertising/

'The Identity and Passport Office has appointed another advertising agency to persuade the public of the apparent benefits of ID cards.

The IPS has chosen Proximity after also hearing pitches from EHS Brann, Tequila and TMW. The firm will deal with "below the line" marketing - typically PR and promotions rather than billboard or media advertising.'

ffs...
 
#2
It's a bit like the EU Treaty isn't it?

'We'll just keep running it past you until you give us the answer we want…'

Quasi-Facist cvnts the lot of them.
 
#3
If Cameron was actually serious about his pledge to scrap ID Cards he would have threatened to introduce legislation to void ab initio all contracts without compensation for breach as one of the first acts on his legislative programme.

The world and his wife know full well that Labour will be out of office next year and will enter the political wilderness for many years thereafter. No commercial entity would dare risk significant financial loss by even considering tendering for government contracts in this area and ID cards would be dead in the water!
 
#4
Gordon’s Political Balls Ups.

Labour Ministers can get very cross and grumpy when their foul ups are criticised. Instead of criticising fellow MPs and Ministers, criticise them for their appearances instead. Guffaw loudly, snigger and point at them making snorting noises.

For example, say…”Goodness Gracious, Gordon. We never realised just how huge and ugly your nose is!” Once that has been said several times….. Gordon will only be too happy to be criticised for his total lack of common sense and howling incompetence....!! :oops: :p :? :(
 
#5
Iolis said:
.......introduce legislation to void ab initio all contracts without compensation for breach.....
So giving HMG the ability to breach any contract that they've entered into. Have you any idea what that would do to risk premiums in contracts? That risk premium is the extra cost of companies not trusting HMG to do it's job properly.

Anyway, one of the main issues with the whole ID card farce is that even if Cameron makes good on his assurances, cancelling the ID card part of it won't save a great deal of money, most of it is going into the underlying database that's associated with the passport system anyway.

It's interesting that they appear to feel the need to separate out the overt communications from this style, although different companies have different competencies.
 
#6
It makes you wonder where all that fecking money goes. I mean, on Monday evening we flew into Manchester airport and when we and 3 other flights worth of people arrived at the 'UK Border', there was only 3 stooges to check the passports. There are 6 desks, but even with a bottomless pit of a budget and with the price of a passport exceeding the rate of inflation by ten-fold, it's very fcuking annoying when you have to queue for half and hour whilst the only 3 members of the Stasi that are on duty check to see if you're Osama Bin Laden.

It's also a sharp reminder that you're back in Blighty. Pay through the nose for everything and always get a shite service in return.

They should change the sign from 'UK Border' to read 'Welcome back to Shitsville, High Taxes, High Crime, High Surveillance and a Bent and Corrupt Government to abuse you'
 
#7
Yes. No surprise then to learn that if you type ''Pro New Labour'' into google, all that comes up are things that new labour is pro. Not a hint of a website which is pro labour.
 
#8
heard_it_all_before said:
It makes you wonder where all that fecking money goes. I mean, on Monday evening we flew into Manchester airport and when we and 3 other flights worth of people arrived at the 'UK Border', there was only 3 stooges to check the passports. There are 6 desks, but even with a bottomless pit of a budget and with the price of a passport exceeding the rate of inflation by ten-fold, it's very fcuking annoying when you have to queue for half and hour whilst the only 3 members of the Stasi that are on duty check to see if you're Osama Bin Laden.

It's also a sharp reminder that you're back in Blighty. Pay through the nose for everything and always get a shite service in return.

They should change the sign from 'UK Border' to read 'Welcome back to Shitsville, High Taxes, High Crime, High Surveillance and a Bent and Corrupt Government to abuse you'
To be fair the humourless bunch of bar-stewards in the States are just as bad.

"what do mean they've all gone to lunch? Three Jumbos have just landed... :x "
 
#9
ClawedFurryMammal said:
Iolis said:
.......introduce legislation to void ab initio all contracts without compensation for breach.....
So giving HMG the ability to breach any contract that they've entered into. Have you any idea what that would do to risk premiums in contracts? That risk premium is the extra cost of companies not trusting HMG to do it's job properly
Then ex hypothesi, the suggestion is that a state of affairs should continue because it it too expensive to terminate. Or put in another way, one Parliament may bind a future Parliament by the simple expedient of legislating for something for which there exists no popular mandate and made an permanant and irreversibe aspect of life for every Crown subject in the Kingdom in perpetuity because it would be too expensive not to.

If companies wish to bid for Crown contracts then they bear the risk of doing so. Government policy is not, has not and never will be driven by the venal demands of the Insurance Companies.
 
#10
Iolis said:
Then ex hypothesi, the suggestion is that a state of affairs should continue because it it too expensive to terminate.
No, the legislation that you suggest would need to apply to all contracts, not just specific contracts related to the programme. That would give HMG the ability to walk away from any contract on the basis that the incumbent politicians didn't like it.

You may be quite content to give HMG that kind of power, personally I'm not keen, and not least because of the impact on costs. We live in an essentially capitalist economy, underpinned by a trust in the contracts that govern commercial relationships. The concept that HMG can consider itself above the law with respect to contract leads to two issues, the practicality of contracting with HMG and the more general concept of what powers we allow HMG to give itself.

Or put in another way, one Parliament may bind a future Parliament by the simple expedient of legislating for something for which there exists no popular mandate and made an permanant and irreversibe aspect of life for every Crown subject in the Kingdom in perpetuity because it would be too expensive not to.
Future government is not being bound to the programme, they can walk away, but have to account for the fact that it costs money to do so.

If companies wish to bid for Crown contracts then they bear the risk of doing so.
And they reflect that risk in the prices they charge. Is it any surprise that HMG pays higher costs for commoditised products and services when one considers the amount of governance, and the frequency with which requirements change and special cases are included.

Government policy is not, has not and never will be driven by the venal demands of the Insurance Companies.
Methinks you miss the point of how the commercial risk is reflected in the pricing. companies exist to give value to their shareholders. The executives have a responsibility to ensure that value is maintained and cost models will reflect that. This is not about insurance companies but the maintenance of a capitalist economy.

Governments should be tightly constrained in what they can do, the way to deal with a government that isn't, our present one, is not to ease those controls still further in the future.
 
#12
Getting a UK Passport from the British Consulate in Duesseldorf costs over 140 Euros.
The application for is different from the one you get in the UK and you can't self certify the photos, there are extra bits to fill in if you are born abroad.

If you need help you can call up an IRISH call-center at 2 Euros a minute(British jobs for British Workers).

The difference is price between the £77 paid in the UK and the 140 Euros here is called a Consulate Fee and is used to keep to the good work of the Consulates going, however, if you need a Consulate official outside of normal working hours you are charged 160 Euros/hour.

When I visit the UK they don't even attempt to match the face to the photo and just scan/record the document number.
 
#13
ClawedFurryMammal said:
Iolis said:
.......introduce legislation to void ab initio all contracts without compensation for breach.....
So giving HMG the ability to breach any contract that they've entered into. Have you any idea what that would do to risk premiums in contracts? That risk premium is the extra cost of companies not trusting HMG to do it's job properly.

Anyway, one of the main issues with the whole ID card farce is that even if Cameron makes good on his assurances, cancelling the ID card part of it won't save a great deal of money, most of it is going into the underlying database that's associated with the passport system anyway.

It's interesting that they appear to feel the need to separate out the overt communications from this style, although different companies have different competencies.

Well the data base should be going the ways of the ID card, and government contracts are there for companies to do business should they choose and rightly give them a fair profit for services supplied, not to be the tail wagging the dog.

If a business does not like the terms they don't have to take the risk. For to long now many business see providing service to the country as a cash cow to be bleed dry with no limits or requirement to provide said services timely as asked and to a agreedd budget.

And i am well aware also that at times the government buy bad.
 
#14
spoiltb said:
Getting a UK Passport from the British Consulate in Duesseldorf costs over 140 Euros.
The application for is different from the one you get in the UK and you can't self certify the photos, there are extra bits to fill in if you are born abroad.

If you need help you can call up an IRISH call-center at 2 Euros a minute(British jobs for British Workers).

The difference is price between the £77 paid in the UK and the 140 Euros here is called a Consulate Fee and is used to keep to the good work of the Consulates going, however, if you need a Consulate official outside of normal working hours you are charged 160 Euros/hour.

When I visit the UK they don't even attempt to match the face to the photo and just scan/record the document number.
I had to renew my passports (x2) at a British Embassy. Cost about £300. Month or two later, I was turned away from a USA flight because my new passport was not of the latest type. When I complained to the Passport "Service" that my expensive new passports were not usable, they said "oh yeah, the British Embassies have to use up their old stock before they get the new type of passport"...... Unbelievable. There are African countries with better civil institutions....
 
#15
I had to renew my passports (x2) at a British Embassy. Cost about £300. Month or two later, I was turned away from a USA flight because my new passport was not of the latest type. When I complained to the Passport "Service" that my expensive new passports were not usable, they said "oh yeah, the British Embassies have to use up their old stock before they get the new type of passport"...... Unbelievable. There are African countries with better civil institutions....
This happened to me in Switzerland, I got a Passport with no machine markings on it in 1999.My previous one,1989, was machine readable.

After a few years of jetting around Europe, my new Passport started looking a bit tatty, causing every Bundesgrenzschutz official to examine it with a magnifying glass as the plastic was peeling away over the picture. I called up about a replacement(when visiting my parents)and was told I had to report to a Passport center in the UK if I wanted a new one in anything under 1 week.It would have been less hassle to report it lost or stolen and re-apply.
 
#16
halo_jones said:
If a business does not like the terms they don't have to take the risk.
It works the other way round, HMG has a perceived need for the service and buys it from the market. The prices offered by the market reflect their confidence in HMG to commit.

In a competitive public procurement environment the risk loading does impact on the likelihood of winning the contract, so the level of confidence acts as an implicit willingness to play or not. If all the players walked away then HMG would have to reconsider how it does business, but generally someone wins the contract, so everyone plays to the extent they want to.

It's all very well being idealistic about the role of HMG and the market, but in practice the market isn't idealistic about the nature of govenment.

For to long now many business see providing service to the country as a cash cow to be bleed dry with no limits or requirement to provide said services timely as asked and to a agreedd budget.

And i am well aware also that at times the government buy bad.
I'd turn that round and say that at times they manage the contracts effectively.

Even when a contract as written is fairly robust it's not then managed. Custom & Practice relaxations become the accepted standard and very quickly the CM has no recourse to the contract as written.
 
#17
spoiltb said:
I had to renew my passports (x2) at a British Embassy. Cost about £300. Month or two later, I was turned away from a USA flight because my new passport was not of the latest type. When I complained to the Passport "Service" that my expensive new passports were not usable, they said "oh yeah, the British Embassies have to use up their old stock before they get the new type of passport"...... Unbelievable. There are African countries with better civil institutions....
This happened to me in Switzerland, I got a Passport with no machine markings on it in 1999.My previous one,1989, was machine readable.

After a few years of jetting around Europe, my new Passport started looking a bit tatty, causing every Bundesgrenzschutz official to examine it with a magnifying glass as the plastic was peeling away over the picture. I called up about a replacement(when visiting my parents)and was told I had to report to a Passport center in the UK if I wanted a new one in anything under 1 week.It would have been less hassle to report it lost or stolen and re-apply.
Renewed mine in San Jose, Costa Rica, in 2007 & it was machine readable, with a chip & cheaper than doing it at home. Only difference is the issuing authority is "FCO" not "UKPA".

The Consul reminded me of a schoolmistress as she scolded me for needing to get the renewal abroad but her assistant was a red hot chick...
 
#18
ClawedFurryMammal said:
halo_jones said:
If a business does not like the terms they don't have to take the risk.
It works the other way round, HMG has a perceived need for the service and buys it from the market. The prices offered by the market reflect their confidence in HMG to commit.

In a competitive public procurement environment the risk loading does impact on the likelihood of winning the contract, so the level of confidence acts as an implicit willingness to play or not. If all the players walked away then HMG would have to reconsider how it does business, but generally someone wins the contract, so everyone plays to the extent they want to.

It's all very well being idealistic about the role of HMG and the market, but in practice the market isn't idealistic about the nature of government.

For to long now many business see providing service to the country as a cash cow to be bleed dry with no limits or requirement to provide said services timely as asked and to a agreed budget.

And i am well aware also that at times the government buy bad.
I'd turn that round and say that at times they manage the contracts effectively.

Even when a contract as written is fairly robust it's not then managed. Custom & Practice relaxations become the accepted standard and very quickly the CM has no recourse to the contract as written.
Some fair points BUT do not mistake idealism for stupidity on my part, there is much wrong with how business is conducted and then monitored by government.

but tell me how many business have walked away recently from PFI without any loss on there part!
 
#19
halo_jones said:
Some fair points BUT do not mistake idealism for stupidity on my part,
Not my intention and I regret that it appears to have come across that way. Public procurement is arcane, complex and over-governed. It's rife with opportunities to exploit the lack of professionalism in government.

there is much wrong with how business is conducted by government in contracting out in part.
I'm going to have to ask for clarification here, is this an objection to HMG outsourcing the delivery of public service as a general concept, or the half baked way that most public service outsourcing is contracted?

....but tell me how many business have walked away recently from PFI without any loss on there part!
I wouldn't use PFI as a standard, whilst it's an approach to outsourcing lage capital projects it's far from representative. The values of PFI are disputed, particularly given recent changes in European accounting standards to improve transparency.

But you're right, those that have jumped or been pushed have borne costs, many more that haven't are making a tidy sum.

Far more HMG contracting is through other mechanisms; frameworks, supply contracts, lots of single sourcing as the values don't meet the thresholds for the procurement legislation.

Public procurement is a pretty reliable source of income, unfortunately HMG pays far too much for what it gets.
 
#20
Try reading "Signal Failures" in the latest "Private Eye" to see what happens with rail franchises...
 

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