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Labour manifesto: Defence

#1
I've been perusing the Labour manifesto - it's the expected mixture of half-truths, selective quotation, and downright lies. Good examples include giving British Crime Survey data as if it represents recorded crime ["Total crime is down 30% since 1997" - according to recorded crime stats it's not...]. They proudly mention all the types of guns they've banned without saying that armed crime is actually up a bajillion %. "13,000 more police"... since when? And why do they all seem to be driving desks?

Anyhoo, on to the important stuff for the majority of Arrsers - Defence policy:

Some lying fatherless said:
Supporting our armed forces
Britain's armed forces are among the best in the world. They are able to play a key role in advancing our interests and values. we want to keep it that way.

We are immensely proud of the bravery, skill and didication our armed forces have demonstrated in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sierra Leone, the Balkans and elsewhere across the world. They are a force for good. We will never commit forces to battle unless it is essential; but when they are committed they will have the investment, strategy, training and preparation they need. That is one reason we have given the armed forces the biggest sustained increase in funding since the end of the Cold War. But we also know that modern demands on our armed forces are changing. That is why reform and modernisation are essential. A reduction in the number of infantary battalions, made possible because of the improved security situation in Northern Ireland, has allowed extra resources for the vital support services such as signals, engineers, intelligence and logistics units - the parts of the army most under pressure. This is essential to allow our infantry soldiers to be fully supported when they go into action on our behalf. We will continue with the investment and reform that make our fighting forces the most flexible and effective in the world.

We are also committed to retaining the independent nuclear deterrent <snip>
Some questions:

a: What planet are they on?
b: does anyone have access to any figures that would show any of their claims up to be lies?
 
#2
You don't honestly believe that they're going to base the general election on truth, do you?
 
#3
"We will never commit forces to battle unless it is essential; but when they are committed they will have the investment, strategy, training and preparation they need."

Given Iraq that is priceless.

"Commit to battle unless essential" .. to what? UK sy, TWAT, economics?

"Investment" - Kit shortages, no money etc etc!

Unfortunately no amount of figures will show this up to be lies as it a manifesto for the future not the past. The wording is so ambiguous and subjective that no-one will be able to take them to task after events in the future either.
 
#4
How dare that cnut BLiar dishonour the troops who have fallen, been wounded or just been plain sh1t scared by printing such crap. This man sent our country to war on by lying to the people and now will again lie to the people to say that he has supported them.

RSM, fetch my gun, we have a cretin to shoot.
 
#5
First thing I'd like to say, I don't like Tony B and I didn't vote for him.

But.......

Once Iraq fades away (either we give up or win), is there any party that will.....

*spend more money on defence such that it would make a noticeable difference? (defence might get enough to cover inflation)
*buy the right kit for the job?

I doubt the Tories will increase defence spending, since they've promised to keep the health spending the same and cut taxes.

We could rely on the yanks to fill any gap, but after Iraq, will they?

Best solution in my view is an integrated European army made up of volunteers, with one leader and once given a mission, freedom to act.

(I suspect people on arse will hate this idea, but seems the logical route to go if you've got little in the way of cash and crap kit)
 
#6
Guardian_Reader said:
Best solution in my view is an integrated European army made up of volunteers, with one leader and once given a mission, freedom to act.

(I suspect people on arse will hate this idea, but seems the logical route to go if you've got little in the way of cash and crap kit)
Aah, yes, I can see it now - the British Regiment of the Imperial EU Army, wearing Flecktarn and carrying FAMASes :roll:
 
#9
I agree with Guardian_Reader about the other parties. Does anyone here remember that clusterfcuk "Options For Change"?

If the Common Foreign and Security Policy idea does get off the ground then hopefully at some point we will be able to get more bang for the buck and start spending the money more wisely.

Two questions though:

1.) Does anyone want to go to war under the command of an Italian general?
2.) Would the Household Division be entitled to sport mullets like the Dutch and Germans?
 
#10
stoatman said:
Some lying fatherless said:
A reduction in the number of infantary battalions, made possible because of the improved security situation in Northern Ireland, has allowed extra resources for the vital support services such as signals, engineers, intelligence and logistics units - the parts of the army most under pressure. This is essential to allow our infantry soldiers to be fully supported when they go into action on our behalf.
Some questions:

a: What planet are they on?
b: does anyone have access to any figures that would show any of their claims up to be lies?
Erm...if I close an infantry battalion today, how many engineers, signals, intelligence, loggies et cetera do I immediately produce? Answer zip, nada, zero. It takes a long time to produce a CSS soldier but this is typical of the easy delivery approximation to the truth that Mr B & Co love. Yes I close the Blankshires down and free up a battalion's worth of operating money but I am still paying the personnel costs of the old battalion. Plus I now have to pay for all the capability elements of the new push. So it is actually more expensive isn't it Tone, with the pay-off at an indeterminate point in the future. If you then discount the cash flow it gets even worser but that is all in the future and no one will remember what we promised exactly and we'll just say it was a "target" or an "aspiration", so that's tiddly...Cnuts, don't they realise people can decode this caca?

Magic 91 said:
Two questions though:

1.) Does anyone want to go to war under the command of an Italian general?
2.) Would the Household Division be entitled to sport mullets like the Dutch and Germans?
Question 1 - Does Arthur Denaro count? Question 2 - do you mean the Toms, most of the officers already have bizarre mullet hairdos anyway...
 
#11
Cuddles said:
Question 2 - do you mean the Toms, most of the officers already have bizarre mullet hairdos anyway...
Good point. I'd forgotten about the officers, I guess they're just so easy to ignore as soon as you learn to tune out the nonsensical inbred braying.
 

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