Labour cuts costs - TA training on hold

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8300530.stm

Would the resident Labour apologists care to explain this in the context of Gordon's belief that there is no economic downturn, that the economy will grow next year and that the armed forces will get everything they want? Good job we're not fighting anyone.

Unbelievable. Not to mention the duty of care issues when a TA soldier is called to serve on the basis of pre-deployment training only.



PS Apologies for the cut n' paste link, perhaps one of the more IT literate could oblige if it doesn't work.
 
#2
Cuts force TA to cease training

Many of the soldiers might move and train in different departments
The Territorial Army has been told it must temporarily halt training due to severe pressure on government finances.

Drill-hall instruction, weekend exercises and all other TA training are to stop for six months, resulting in savings of about £20m.

TA soldiers serve in Afghanistan, but the Ministry of Defence said operations would not be hit as they train with the regular Army before deployment.

The TA has about 1,200 troops a year in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans.

A Ministry of Defence (MoD) spokesman said: "These are challenging times and like all government departments, we have to live within our means.

"We routinely review our spending to balance priorities, focusing on the highest priorities including on our operations, particularly in Afghanistan."

Since Labour came to power the TA has fallen from more than 57,000 to a trained strength of about 19,000.

In April the MoD announced plans for a major shake-up of the TA, with up to 2,400 Royal Signal posts standing to be cut, with soldiers facing redundancy or redeployment.

The thing that pissed me off most is not the cuts, but the fact they're only being done for a £20m saving. The defence budget is massive, and they're bitching over £20m. Cost overruns on the carrier will be hundreds of millions, perhaps give the contracters there a kick up the arrse instead of stripping the TA to nothing.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Exactly, we could cover these costs by being tougher on MP's expenses.
 
#4
Wont TA soldiers leave the army now? Whats the point of being in if you can't train?

That will save some more dosh though wont it?
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Certainly you can't suspend an organisation like the TA for six months and not do very serious damage.
 
#6
I'm looking at this news and wondering what I'm going to have left of a platoon when they restart training.

Imagine this were a civilian organisation ... would you work for a company that had to shut one division's doors for half a year, whilst you see massive spending overrun in other divisions, and all in the name of £20m out of a £35bn budget?

I don't see that happening in the National Guard in the US, and I think it's a sad state of affairs that the TA is getting hammered like this. If this is part of the "One Army" concept then it doesn't speak volumes for what our Regular colleagues can expect ...
 
#7
FORMER_FYRDMAN said:
Certainly you can't suspend an organisation like the TA for six months and not do very serious damage.
I think that is the point. The current Government doesn't have the balls to go toe to toe with the TA or regimental lobbies that would kick up a fuss if there were explicit disbandments. So they have come up with a plan for the organisation to effectively disband itself.

The Army Board are professional soldiers and so they will know exactly how much damage this will do to the TA. That they should do something so deeply cynical speaks volumes about how much they value the TA.

Sad but inevitable. When the Regular Army is faced with a decision like this we will chop the TA every time. Of course, there's no savings to be had on in Horseguards....
 
#8
With the war progressing in Afghanistan, and with other threats lurking, only in Alice's 'Wonderland' or in Labour's Britain could this be happening.
 
#9
The perception is that soldiers don't vote or don't vote Labour, this is just part of Labours scorched earth policy, remind me again who's likely to have to deal with the fallout from this.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
CQMS said:
The perception is that soldiers don't vote or don't vote Labour, this is just part of Labours scorched earth policy, remind me again who's likely to have to deal with the fallout from this.
Agreed, but I think Dergeneral's point is valid too - I can't see Gordon trying to push this through at this time without tacit support from the military establishment.

I think those clowns need to understand that Afghanistan won't last forever and that there are more enduring defence needs - the ability to significantly increase troop numbers at short notice in the event of a general conflict being one of them and a more general awareness and appreciation of the military in wider civil society being another. Not to mention the availablility of a flexible pool of trained manpower to bail out the Regulars when their leaders fail to stand up to politicians who want to embark on half-baked and under-resourced military adventures.
 
#11
Well, that's a pisse. How does this impact those of us who were just prepping to go and sign up?

I'm guessing I just need to wait 6 months or so and look on the bright side that I'll be even fitter by then.
 
#13
Why am I not in the least surprised at this, given the Labia Partei,s pathological hatred of the Armed Forces, except when it comes to their own self agrandisment (Bliar). In fact they stand in mortal fear that if there was an Army at home, it might just take it into it,s head to move against their political bosses and do away with them altogether, in a long overdue Coup de Etat. :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
 
#14
There's more in the times article here.

If training did stop for 6 months, I guess we would loose half of our meagre compliment of commited soldiers. I can see the day when the unit consists of only of the few (mainly ex regular soldiers, about 5% of our establishment) we have who attend the minimum of training but want to deploy regularly, like a branch of the Regular Reserve. Is that the plan? Do they think they can just train recruits then shelve them for a year or two until OPTAG and deployment?

Even if this is jounalist overreaction to the training cuts currently underway, these stories add impetus to the downward spiral of morale in the TA.
 
#15
Well the goberment can fook off if they think that any of us will attned any national call out's stabbed straight in the back.

Perhaps they can tell me this what will happen to the recruitment of TA soldiers sorry come back in 6? by that time a lot of people will have left and suddenly a massive training gap/and lack of experience.
 
#16
Turk said:
Cuts force TA to cease training

Many of the soldiers might move and train in different departments
The Territorial Army has been told it must temporarily halt training due to severe pressure on government finances.

Drill-hall instruction, weekend exercises and all other TA training are to stop for six months, resulting in savings of about £20m.

TA soldiers serve in Afghanistan, but the Ministry of Defence said operations would not be hit as they train with the regular Army before deployment.

The TA has about 1,200 troops a year in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans.

A Ministry of Defence (MoD) spokesman said: "These are challenging times and like all government departments, we have to live within our means.

"We routinely review our spending to balance priorities, focusing on the highest priorities including on our operations, particularly in Afghanistan."

Since Labour came to power the TA has fallen from more than 57,000 to a trained strength of about 19,000.

In April the MoD announced plans for a major shake-up of the TA, with up to 2,400 Royal Signal posts standing to be cut, with soldiers facing redundancy or redeployment.

The thing that pissed me off most is not the cuts, but the fact they're only being done for a £20m saving. The defence budget is massive, and they're bitching over £20m. Cost overruns on the carrier will be hundreds of millions, perhaps give the contracters there a kick up the arrse instead of stripping the TA to nothing.
As much as I would like to have 20 million in the bank this seems a very very small amount in goverment terms,does anyone know how much the UK gives out in overseas aid per year? I take it cutting back on foreign aid would be far to sensitive as opposed to cutting the TA as the vast majority of the population would look on the TA as a "weekend hobby" not taking into account the amount of TA on OPs.Sad, sad times.
 
#17
xpat said:
If training did stop for 6 months, I guess we would loose half of our meagre compliment of commited soldiers.
And you think CGS, the ACDS(R&C) don't know this ? They must do. Ergo they see the effective self-disbandment of the TA as the least painful of a bunch of measures to find £20M of savings.

They may as well have said: "Wake up and smell the coffee STABS...."
 
#18
The last time anything remotely approaching this was 1998/99 when all TA units were told in the autumn to either
a) Stop wekly drill nights
b) Soldiers could attend but be unpaid
c) Have 1 weekly drill night per month.

The net result was we lost a load of the newer guys because they lost interest. At the time I told the Hon Col that the TA was like a habit, if you break the routine and people find something else to do with their time, it takes a lot to bring them back again. For those with families there will always be plenty of jobs to do at home, fnd another hobby etc.

Totake away 6 months and effectively shut down the reserves is madness. What about the annual bounty tests? Not every unit can get on the ranges etc in the first 6 months so that means the remainder are stuffed. Also are any units scheduled for annual camp later in the year?

As for savings, in July's official figures there are 83,000 currently employed by the MOD, that equates to a Regular Army strength of 90,000.
There is almost a 1-1 parity so there is definately room for savings! On the procurement side there are 28,000 employed there alone - current Navy strength is around 30,000.

The obvious question is do we need an MOD that big - NO!
 
#19
This will be the death of the TA. I recall struggling through an uninspiring training programme at one point in the early 90s and there were plenty who chucked it in after a few weekends of stag or kitchen duties.

How many will return after six months?

How will people meet the bounty requirements in the remaining six months?

What about progression training, not just the formal courses but the in-house training after the recruits' course? Could set some people back a year.

How many will decide "well, it's the regular Army for me" and depart that pool of "casual labour" (as the MoD views it).
 
#20
Nice to see this one being briefed down the Chain of Command to RF Bdes and COs before being broken in the Press - NOT.

What the f*ck do those clowns in Whitehall think they are doing?
 

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