Labour about to split?

If that was a hard drive, I'd be looking at giving it a thorough defrag.
If that was the real HoC rather than a pictogram it’d benefit from a thorough fragging.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
To be scrupulously fair, the only parties to be clear on their Brexit views are the LibDems and UKIP
Labour and the Conservatives couldn't articulate a coherent opinion on it from day one.

The current political splits are probably the most positive thing to happen to politics in the last decade
That may be a numbers game, no one had any policy they were willing to espouse as a party prior to the referendum apart from the limpwristers. That said our local limper has resigned the party whip as our constituency voted to leave.
When you only have less than ten MP's its fairly easy to force an opinion into policy especially as it will never become law/policy/whatever of a party in office!
 
That may be a numbers game, no one had any policy they were willing to espouse as a party prior to the referendum apart from the limpwristers. That said our local limper has resigned the party whip as our constituency voted to leave.
When you only have less than ten MP's its fairly easy to force an opinion into policy especially as it will never become law/policy/whatever of a party in office!

Whats interesting about the splitters is that I'm not sue their actions will have much influence in Parliament. I think they will have less influence outside their respective parties than they did before they did a runner

How's that for irony?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
How's that for irony?
Right up there with all the classics. The fact that those who could have changed parties and our countries political landscape decided to wimp out and now have rejected those parties they could have led are now forming an ineffectual minor group with no party support outside of themselves or even the HoC and will either sink into obscurity or join the limp wristers at the next GE as the Lib Dems will do anything for a sniff of power!
 
Were still running with the Its all a Jewish plot routine
They really don't help themselves calling the antisemitism crisis in the Labour Party a Jewish conspiracy, even worse when you know they probably believe what they're saying

Before you know it Labour will be calling for a final solution, oh hang on they already have.....

 
Right up there with all the classics. The fact that those who could have changed parties and our countries political landscape decided to wimp out and now have rejected those parties they could have led are now forming an ineffectual minor group with no party support outside of themselves or even the HoC and will either sink into obscurity or join the limp wristers at the next GE as the Lib Dems will do anything for a sniff of power!

The only benefit to the country is that mainstream politics is on the backfoot.
Labour is broken, the Conservatives will only survive because of that.

The newly emerging Brexit Party appears have populist support. And yes, I know populist is a dirty word in political circles but personally I belive its the whole point of democracy
Professional politicians are steadly losing their grip on power (and not just in the UK) and that can only be good for everyone
 
If the Conservatives and the Labour party stopped being 'conservative' with the truth and embraced their respective hidden positions to gain middle ground votes, what would change?

The Conservatives would be very right of Thatcher and slavishly anti-Europe, Labour would be very left of Euro socialism, pro-Palestinian to the detriment of his historical Jewish support and indifferent to Brexit due to hatred of a rightist EU institution.

Would we, the voting public, be sanguine about that and carry on voting for the 2 main parties or would there be a a migration to a new Centrist one?

My theory is that we would continue to vote viscerally Red or Blue even if they admitted their true colours.
 
Bearing in mind @jagman2 and @ugly dialogue above.

Can't help but think the majority of splitters are effectively a self draining swamp (excepting those who cite anti semitism).
They would have had more beneficial influence within their Party's - now they're gone, they're no loss.
It does exhibit just how toxic politics have become - amusing as it may be, McDonnell saying Labour need a 'big listening exercise' - and then not allowing deputy leader Tom Watson into their Brexit' meetings!!!

I get the impression it's becoming a lot more polarising, much of it avoidable - for which I think PMTM is mostly to blame.
However bad no deal could be, and increasingly I feel it looks better than WA and 2nd referendums could be, if we're out, having to make WTO deals whatever, then the whole country can concentrate on our own particular domestic issues.

The splitters will fade into obscurity. I reckon Momentum/Labour will become more retrenched and toxic though.
If Labour Co-op members split and showed a bit of moral courage/principles that would be good news. I doubt Union sponsored MPs will dare to though.
If they don't, I won't be surprised if within a few years, it becomes an 'anything but British' party with embedded anti semitism.

Do we actually produce any politician stock that are patrician and statesmanlike other than short term careerists anymore though?
 
Bearing in mind @jagman2 and @ugly dialogue above.



The splitters will fade into obscurity. I reckon Momentum/Labour will become more retrenched and toxic though.
Whilst I don't disagree, until a new party displaces Labour as the opposition thats really bad for the country. At the moment the only thing more ineffective than our government is the opposition.

We are in very real danger of an incredibly poor quality government succeeding Theresa May without any meaninful opposition party. And yes, I do mean worse than Corbyn and May.

I do also believe that its possible that within a decade both Labour and Conservative's could be ousted as the primary political partys in this country. Thats an interesting prospect.
 
Whilst I don't disagree, until a new party displaces Labour as the opposition thats really bad for the country. At the moment the only thing more ineffective than our government is the opposition.

We are in very real danger of an incredibly poor quality government succeeding Theresa May without any meaninful opposition party. And yes, I do mean worse than Corbyn and May.

I do also believe that its possible that within a decade both Labour and Conservative's could be ousted as the primary political partys in this country. Thats an interesting prospect.
That could happen. The main issue for this party, aside from the obvious, is that they are arguably non - conformists. They are seeking allies in former opponents and, as much as Soubry is pro-EU, she is pretty Tory in some policy areas which the ex-Labour types will find unpalatable. The IG is a single - issue group. I think they will struggle to create policy lines in non-Brexit subjects and, as a result, will come across as hopelessly beige and boring. That is, what are they for, as opposed to against?
Habitual rebels may not make a good team.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Whilst I don't disagree, until a new party displaces Labour as the opposition thats really bad for the country. At the moment the only thing more ineffective than our government is the opposition.
Again, yes, a strong opposition is needed even if only to open the Govt of the day to ridicule/scrutiny depending upon your publication of choice, the alternative is what happened in Maggies and Princess Tony's first two terms.
We are in very real danger of an incredibly poor quality government succeeding Theresa May without any meaninful opposition party. And yes, I do mean worse than Corbyn and May.
Meaningful opposition doesn't have to force no confidence votes for no other purpose than they can, in fact it delays legislation rather than allows debate.
I do also believe that its possible that within a decade both Labour and Conservative's could be ousted as the primary political partys in this country. Thats an interesting prospect.
Its happened before, the problem is the splitters and minor parties are unable to find common enough ground to form a real coalition that could let alone would work. The last major party to fade in this way was the Liberals, it failed mainly due to the growth of Labour between the wars and hasn't ever recovered. The current lib dems will never in my lifetime form a realistic opposition. The minor parties are minor, Greens etc and wont ever amount to anything worthwhile.
I think that we may be condemned to decades of weak Tory rule.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
It's there in the eyes. I don't scare easily, but she frightens me. She's a boozer and I reckon I wouldn't want to be around her when she'd taken a fill.
Should she be in the danger f ucks thread?
 

Latest Threads

Top