L96A? and the marksman role. A proper rumour!

#1
Rumour has it that a new run of L96A? (7.62) is entering production to provide weapons for a new "marksman/sharpshooter" role at Coy level. This is not as a substitute for snipers but more as a fire support asset, I would see it working very well in static defence.

Anyone else heard this rumour?

Will it exist as a role in TA Inf units?
 
#2
The L115 was originally issued as a Pl level weapon, although only for selected units.

With snipers switching to an improved L115 there should be surplus L98s available for other units.

So issuing it as a Pl or Coy level asset to units that do not have L115s is plausible, but I cannot say if it true.
 
#4
Joker said:
Not L98! I would hope our FSP was a little more than a Cadet GP rifle!
:D
Good point, well brought out. I obviously should not be posting this late at night. So I will log off and go to bed :oops: .
 
#6
I think these will be new builds rather than just a reissue of surplus L96A1s. The original ones are well over twenty years old now and I suspect many are rather tired.
 
#7
EX_STAB said:
I think these will be new builds rather than just a reissue of surplus L96A1s. The original ones are well over twenty years old now and I suspect many are rather tired.
They are still well up to the job, the only faults that occur on the L96 that I've run into are stocks breaking and the need to change the legs over now and again. We took a L96 into the workshops for a barrel change a few months back and the armourer there at the time, in the job for 25 years had never seen one changed before. No need to fork out extra money just for having the sake of having the same weapons but shiny and new.
 
#8
vampireuk said:
EX_STAB said:
I think these will be new builds rather than just a reissue of surplus L96A1s. The original ones are well over twenty years old now and I suspect many are rather tired.
They are still well up to the job, the only faults that occur on the L96 that I've run into are stocks breaking and the need to change the legs over now and again. We took a L96 into the workshops for a barrel change a few months back and the armourer there at the time, in the job for 25 years had never seen one changed before. No need to fork out extra money just for having the sake of having the same weapons but shiny and new.
Interesting. Just going by what I have heard. To be honest, as the originals had cut rifled barrels I'd be surprised if they had lasted until now. Cut rifled barrels are usually pretty shot out after 2000 rounds or so. Many civvies would change them after a thousand.
 
#10
EX_STAB said:
vampireuk said:
EX_STAB said:
I think these will be new builds rather than just a reissue of surplus L96A1s. The original ones are well over twenty years old now and I suspect many are rather tired.
They are still well up to the job, the only faults that occur on the L96 that I've run into are stocks breaking and the need to change the legs over now and again. We took a L96 into the workshops for a barrel change a few months back and the armourer there at the time, in the job for 25 years had never seen one changed before. No need to fork out extra money just for having the sake of having the same weapons but shiny and new.
Interesting. Just going by what I have heard. To be honest, as the originals had cut rifled barrels I'd be surprised if they had lasted until now. Cut rifled barrels are usually pretty shot out after 2000 rounds or so. Many civvies would change them after a thousand.
Because the weapons are a single shot bolt action the wear on the weapon system on a whole is fairly minimal. We have L96 rifles in our armoury that to my knowledge have not had a single barrel change and are still as accurate as they have ever been.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
Biped was put off the local TA inf as they had abandoned sniping as a discipline which is why he went to join the scaleybacks.
 
#12
I though it was because they made him wash :twisted:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
There's more chance of that in the scaleys than in crusty land!
 
#15
vampireuk said:
EX_STAB said:
vampireuk said:
EX_STAB said:
I think these will be new builds rather than just a reissue of surplus L96A1s. The original ones are well over twenty years old now and I suspect many are rather tired.
They are still well up to the job, the only faults that occur on the L96 that I've run into are stocks breaking and the need to change the legs over now and again. We took a L96 into the workshops for a barrel change a few months back and the armourer there at the time, in the job for 25 years had never seen one changed before. No need to fork out extra money just for having the sake of having the same weapons but shiny and new.
Interesting. Just going by what I have heard. To be honest, as the originals had cut rifled barrels I'd be surprised if they had lasted until now. Cut rifled barrels are usually pretty shot out after 2000 rounds or so. Many civvies would change them after a thousand.
Because the weapons are a single shot bolt action the wear on the weapon system on a whole is fairly minimal. We have L96 rifles in our armoury that to my knowledge have not had a single barrel change and are still as accurate as they have ever been.
Barrel wear is a function of the numbers of rounds the weapon has fired rather than the action type. Further to that, practically all full auto/semi auto military weapons have hammer forged barrels which are good for up to 10,000 rounds.

Some manufacturers of sniper rifles use hammer forged barrels. Steyr Mannlicher and Sako are good examples and no serious commentator would suggest that sniper rifles from either manufacturer were of poor quality or innacurate. However, Accuracy International use Cut Rifled barrels from Border barrels, (They did use another source for a while too). These might be made to very precise tolerances and hand finished but they lack the barrel life of a hammer forged barrel.

Hammer forged barrels have a poor reputation in the US mainly because the US custom barrel makers use cut rifling and button rifling (swaging ) techniques and slag off the opposition.

It's certainly true that many hammer forged barrels are not of match quality but the same can be said of cut rifling and button (swaging) techniques.

I have a Sako TRG with a hammer forged, chrome lined barrel. My best result with it was a four round 0.8 inch group at 400 yds. Not a problem with accuracy then and that barrel will be going long after a Border Barrels hand finished cut rifled barrel had been retired.

Anybody know the group sizes expected on the sniper course? It would indicate what was being expected from the weapon system as opposed to the sniper. (Not a lot I suspect)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
Barrel life can be extended by careful component selection for ammo and regular measurement of leade.
Those of us not working on a ministry budget usually counter the opening of groups by seating the bullets further out as throat erosion occurs. Also correct breaking in of new barrels helps prolong their life, but I suspect that even without moly coated handloads fed one at a time removing any mag length restriction is still probably a few years down the line for most service 7.62mm rifles. These may not, believe it or not, be firing as much ammo in a year as a serious SR competitor.
As stated above by other posters they dont yet seem to have had to change any barrels although I suspect thats more from underuse than great components and cleaning!
I too have a hammer forged barrel on a P14. It does the business and is on undeterminate age and life but will still play a good tune out to 1000 yards with the right ammo. Neither you nor I are limited or restricted to a twist rate set by committee! :roll:
 
#17
AI barrels are buttoned

AI no longer make the L96, it was replaced by the AW series

Just because a weapon is over 20 years doesn't mean it is longer effective, the L96s still have loads of life left in them! i used a GPMG which was dated 1964 or something silly! probably been overhauled a few times though!
 
#18
misterp said:
AI barrels are buttoned

AI no longer make the L96, it was replaced by the AW series

Just because a weapon is over 20 years doesn't mean it is longer effective, the L96s still have loads of life left in them! i used a GPMG which was dated 1964 or something silly! probably been overhauled a few times though!
They probably are now. I doubt the original L96 ones were. In any case, button rifling has no greater durability than cut.

The AW is a development of the L96. I would be surprised if a new production batch got a new number but I suppose it could. The rifle I am aware of has some detailed differences to previous AWs but then the AW has changed over the years.
 
#19
ugly said:
Barrel life can be extended by careful component selection for ammo and regular measurement of leade.
Those of us not working on a ministry budget usually counter the opening of groups by seating the bullets further out as throat erosion occurs. Also correct breaking in of new barrels helps prolong their life, but I suspect that even without moly coated handloads fed one at a time removing any mag length restriction is still probably a few years down the line for most service 7.62mm rifles. These may not, believe it or not, be firing as much ammo in a year as a serious SR competitor.
As stated above by other posters they dont yet seem to have had to change any barrels although I suspect thats more from underuse than great components and cleaning!
I too have a hammer forged barrel on a P14. It does the business and is on undeterminate age and life but will still play a good tune out to 1000 yards with the right ammo. Neither you nor I are limited or restricted to a twist rate set by committee! :roll:
Feck, you should have seen the state of the "new" barrel we got from the stores, clearly thing thing has been sat on the shelf for years just waiting for someone to finally change one.

And still, why would we bother spending money on a new batch of weapons when they are simply not required?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
I saw a couple of years ago some 1940's manufactured SMLE barrels from South Africa. There were packed for storage at the Factory and were immaculate when we got all the protective muck of the outside.
Seems things were done properly then!
 

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