L129 accidentally firing bursts?

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Ref: lower-powered ammo. Unless you've got a bad batch, that shouldn't be a problem with issued green spot should it?


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It won't be the ammunition. Do you have a very light hold on the rifle? Are you very light/skinny?
 

Lost_Boy

Old-Salt
I'm not the firer. The lad in question is a reasonable build and had built up a good fire position. His trigger control is likewise good.


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Unlikely in an AR type action I would think... this fault really only happens in guns that fire from an open bolt such as Sterlings and PPSh...

Basically it comes down to a broken the disconnector/sear. If it was a jammed firing pin it would slam fire..(i.e. fire when the bolt closes)

You DID do your function tests now didn't you?
Ive had it happen on an AK and an A5 shotgun.
 

HE117

LE
Ref: lower-powered ammo. Unless you've got a bad batch, that shouldn't be a problem with issued green spot should it?


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
Green spot?

Who's giving you Green spot..? RG haven't made any for ages.

Je sniffair un raton mon amis!
 
If this really is an issued weapon, unless you are an armourer you have no business doing any kind of function test or anything else with the weapon. It is to be placed in quarantine until it can be inspected by a class one armourer.
 

HE117

LE
Ive had it happen on an AK and an A5 shotgun.
Have you..? never seen that!

The usual cause of double taps is when the breech does not recoil far enough to get caught on the sear. It picks up another round and fires it.. but that is only with an open bolt design.

An AK has a rotary bolt.. it cannot fire until the breech cycles and closes, clearing the striker to be hit by the hammer.. If the gas is not sufficient, the usual failure is for the case to stick on the eject part before the reload cycle can start.. The AK can double tap from a worn sear which releases the hammer when the breech closes.. (or someone sets the change lever wrongly..)

An A5 however works on the long recoil principle.. both the block and the barrel recoil together until the block catches on the interruptor. The barrel then returns to battery and the block is released to pick up another round... I have used an A5 for years with all sorts of ammo (quite a lot home made) and never had a double tap. What usually happens is that the barrel and block do not reach the interruptor and they both just go back with the fired case in the breech.. either that or the empty case stove pipes in the ejection port...

Not doubting you.. but just can't see how it would happen....
 

HE117

LE
If this really is an issued weapon, unless you are an armourer you have no business doing any kind of function test or anything else with the weapon. It is to be placed in quarantine until it can be inspected by a class one armourer.
Eh no..

Weapon handling drills now require you to carry out a "function test" after reassembling a weapon to make sure that the main functions such as the safety catch and the fire selector switch are working correctly. In other words this fault should have been picked up before the weapon was fired..

If a function fails either on the function test or when firing, then the weapon should be made safe and passed to REME for inspection. The weapon only needs to be placed in quarantine if there is an accident.
 
Have you..? never seen that!

The usual cause of double taps is when the breech does not recoil far enough to get caught on the sear. It picks up another round and fires it.. but that is only with an open bolt design.

An AK has a rotary bolt.. it cannot fire until the breech cycles and closes, clearing the striker to be hit by the hammer.. If the gas is not sufficient, the usual failure is for the case to stick on the eject part before the reload cycle can start.. The AK can double tap from a worn sear which releases the hammer when the breech closes.. (or someone sets the change lever wrongly..)

An A5 however works on the long recoil principle.. both the block and the barrel recoil together until the block catches on the interruptor. The barrel then returns to battery and the block is released to pick up another round... I have used an A5 for years with all sorts of ammo (quite a lot home made) and never had a double tap. What usually happens is that the barrel and block do not reach the interruptor and they both just go back with the fired case in the breech.. either that or the empty case stove pipes in the ejection port...

Not doubting you.. but just can't see how it would happen....
The AK was a civvy semi auto version so it cant have been on F/A, I was playing around with it in Palmdale desert and it let off three rounds , it never did it again that day.
The A5 was a tired old one I used around the farms in the UK , taken a shot at a bird and off went two , may have been a bump fire but I dont think so.

RE Bump fires , as a kid I nearly broke my thumb trying to get an A5 to burst fire :)
 
Eh no..

Weapon handling drills now require you to carry out a "function test" after reassembling a weapon to make sure that the main functions such as the safety catch and the fire selector switch are working correctly. In other words this fault should have been picked up before the weapon was fired..

If a function fails either on the function test or when firing, then the weapon should be made safe and passed to REME for inspection. The weapon only needs to be placed in quarantine if there is an accident.
I was going to say the same thing but I think his argument is that since the weapon has a fault reported against it, no one else should have hands on it to perform a test, until cleared by the armourer.
 
Eh no..

Weapon handling drills now require you to carry out a "function test" after reassembling a weapon to make sure that the main functions such as the safety catch and the fire selector switch are working correctly. In other words this fault should have been picked up before the weapon was fired..

If a function fails either on the function test or when firing, then the weapon should be made safe and passed to REME for inspection. The weapon only needs to be placed in quarantine if there is an accident.
Eh yes. The fact that an nd has occured means that the weapon should be in quarantine. Not fiddled with by unqualified people and certainly not fired again.
 
I was going to say the same thing but I think his argument is that since the weapon has a fault reported against it, no one else should have hands on it to perform a test, until cleared by the armourer.
We don't even know if it has been reported, he says it has been fired again. Unless there is missing information here, firing a weapon that has had an nd without an inspection by an armourer could cause a case of career firing, career stops.
 
Unlikely in an AR type action I would think... this fault really only happens in guns that fire from an open bolt such as Sterlings and PPSh...

Basically it comes down to a broken disconnector/sear. If it was a jammed firing pin it would slam fire..(i.e. fire when the bolt closes)

You DID do your function tests now didn't you?
Bumpfire is a common phenoy.........., err fenom,...err occurrence, that'll do, occurrence. In fact it is utilised by a few kn0b5 in the US deliberately to get around the full-auto weapon legislation.

Mr HE117 will know this, but for those wot don't: Low powered ammo not causing the working bits to go back and engage the sear can cause it, as can a wishy washy way of holding the weapon. Also worn trigger components can be a cause of the problem.

I might have once seen a Mac 10 that had a simple pencil rubber black nastied to the pistol grip just behind the trigger so that the trigger had a bouncy, bouncy, action giving the appearance of controlled bursts.

Bumpfire stocks, this is now actually the old-hat cheap end of the market:


Worn trigger components are effectively simulated with precision made components resulting in a shorter reset:


Taccon was the top end but there are now another couple out there.

Ahhhhhnd,.......Just for the perv's

 

HE117

LE
Eh yes. The fact that an nd has occured means that the weapon should be in quarantine. Not fiddled with by unqualified people and certainly not fired again.
Calm down mate..- why are you claiming this is an ND...?

If it is a double tap, there is not an issue of negligence... it is an equipment failure, and the gun needs to be inspected before it is put back in use..

Unless of course the individual failed to carry out the mandated function test before going on the range.. which was the point I was trying to make.. however even this is not classed as an ND - this is an error of drill.

If there had been an accident or an ND, yes the weapon needs to be quarantined because there are legal implications and the weapon has become evidence. But this is not the case that the OP is (apparently!) reporting..
 
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Calm down mate..- why are you claiming this is an ND...?

If it is a double tap, there is not an issue of negligence... it is an equipment failure, and the gun needs to be inspected before it is put back in use..

Unless of course the individual failed to carry out the mandated function test before going on the range.. which was the point I was trying to make.. however even this is not classed as an ND - this is an error of drill.

If there had been an accident or an ND, yes the weapon needs to be quarantined because there are legal implications and the weapon has become evidence. But this is not the case that the OP is reporting..
Reading between the lines, the OP's 'mate' has had an automatic ND.

Satisfactory function/BEEFS check and correct drills (safety catch - change lever)

Armourer will decide if the issue is safety sear or sausage fingers.
 
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